Shane Long

[CMRoyal]

He is a good header and has a terrific spring but that's not enough for a top Championship/lower Premiership club.
His link up play hasn't improved nor has his first touch and ball retention is so important the higher you get up the football scale.
His pace and heading ability can lead him to have a decent career at Championship level and the same goes for N Hunt and S Hunt but The Premiership is different and to succedd at that level we need better players than these three.

I agree with brendywendy that Shane's control and link up play have improved. However, I agree that he isn't Premier League standard. He used to be about 50% the player Doyle is, now he's about 75%; a massive improvement, but if we take Doyle to be the equal of someone like Nugent of Pompey, we can be sure that Long will struggle in the Prem.

BTW "assists" stats have become a big thing in recent years and don't tell us anywhere near the full story behind a goal,e.g a midfielder plays a 50 yard defence-splitting ball to a winger who taps the ball across goal into the path of the oncoming striker who scores.
The most significant part in that goal was probably the midfielder's pass but that doesn't get noted whereas the winger's simple pass becomes an "assist".

True, and let's not undermine the timing of the winger's run, or the tackle that might have started the move, or the other striker pulling a marker away from the danger area, etc etc...

[BR2]

Despite Shane scoring two very important goals,one dead easy but the other quite difficult,against a relegated (almost) side ,in my view he is about where he was when he first played and scored that header v Derby(?)
He is a good header and has a terrific spring but that's not enough for a top Championship/lower Premiership club.
His link up play hasn't improved nor has his first touch and ball retention is so important the higher you get up the football scale.
His pace and heading ability can lead him to have a decent career at Championship level and the same goes for N Hunt and S Hunt but The Premiership is different and to succedd at that level we need better players than these three.

totally ignores clear improvements in touch, movement,link up play , finishing, and ball retention seen this season, and especially during his latest run in the team.
and to say hes not moved on at all since he scored his first vs derby a few years back is mad.


still to be proven at any other level, but he looks a decent prospect, and the potential for further improvements

Hand-on-heart Brendy do you really,really believe that he has shown so much improvement?
If you do then clearly we watch different games.

[Hoop Blah]

Often mentioned on TV....is that a stat then?

If someone records it, yes. Andy Gray often does this sort of analysis, and whereas he might not say, X did Y 7 times, it's proper analysis as opposed to gut-feel

Easily logged...is that a stat then?

If someone records it, yes. Andy Gray often does this sort of analysis, and whereas he might not say, X did Y 7 times, it's proper analysis as opposed to gut-feel

2WW1WC said that these things "WILL be reflected in the numbers." My point is that many facets of the game won't be covered by the stats.

We can say, "Everybody's life is the same. They are born, they live, they die." Complex things are simply more difficult to quantify, that doesn't mean they can't be quantified. Given the cameras, a manager could analyse videotapes of his team and discover the average distance apart of his two CBs, the biggest/smallest gaps, the way they close space, whatever... and even supposedly random factors, could be taken into account. It's just the level of analysis.

I don't know what all the stats collected under the Prozone regime. All I know is what we get given, the simpler stuff. To me the simpler stuff is important. yeah, more subtlety would be nice, but...

As for the nudge for the penalty, no Snowball that won't be "won penalty" as the nudge Long made caused the defender to handball it.

Disagree. Would the penalty have happened if Long had NOt nudged the defender?

NO.

Therefore Long's action precipitated the handball and we got the penalty.

Kits, had he been with us then, would have been deep in midfield, Lita would have been on the floor ten yards away

I'd have thought the "won penalty" would be given, if it is at all, to whoever played the ball that the defender handballed it.

And you'd be wrong.

At last you seem to recognise that your stats do not cover enough of a players conribution to a game or a result and so don't accurately reflect a players ability. This is another breakthough!

Not even slightly. I have always said that. We use the stats we have.

Fer Chrissakes, a changing-room argument we never hear about could affect a game.

we deal with what we have

The discussion was about what is recorded as stats. I'm fully aware that someone COULD record the things I pointed out but the reality is that they don't. Being mentioned in the TV commentry doesn't make something right or recorded and published as one of the many pointless stats available out there. That was the point you've started argueing against from my reply to 2WW1WC.

If these are recorded stats then please show me where!!!!

As for the Long contribution to the penalty. I know that Long's contribution in fouling the defender led to the penalty, that's why it's been mentioned. I'm also pretty sure that any assist stat for that goal will not have been attributed to Long for his foul. If that's not the case then I'm happy to be corrected on it but I've not seen anything apart from you saying "you'd be wrong" to back that up. On the flip side the general standard for awarding assists for penalties is, as far as I'm aware, to give to to a player who is fouled in winning the penalty. In this case nobody was fouled and nobody actually 'won' the penalty.

[Hoop Blah]

I have to agree with BR's assesement of Longs progress.

Yes he has taken his scoring chances with some aplomb but the rest of his game is still lacking.

Don't get me wrong, I think he has improved, but he still doesn't show enough for me to consider him a genuine contender for a starting place in our side if any of our other forwards are fit and anywhere near in form.

Better than what we've got and deserving of more first team chances at REading over the last 4 seasons? No.

However, he's a decent option to have in the squad as 4th choice though and he has a very valuable knack of being able to do something positive off the bench.

[Gordons Cumming]

This a Long thread.

[Thaumagurist*]

This a Long thread.

Too Long.

So Long.

[brendywendy]

Hand-on-heart Brendy do you really,really believe that he has shown so much improvement?
If you do then clearly we watch different games.

IMO i think if you look at the last five games hes played he has showed the improvement we have all been hoping for, in those areas already listed yes.

the only thing in my mind would be, is that just a temporary upwards blip, that will soon fade
or a real long term improvement


you only have to look at the reaction he gets
before-majority of fans around me would groan as he warmed up ready to come on
now-signs of genuine excitement from alot of fans sat around me


but its all about opinion,& it is totallypossible for both of us, to have looked at the situation and come up with pretty much opposite opinions

[RoyalBlue]

I've not been one of Long's greatest fans and would still pick a fit Lita ahead of him!

However, he has improved and come Sunday I will be 100% behind him.

Go Long!

(please SC, that does not mean hoof!!)

[ZacNaloen]

He can't be that bad, he was on the showboat this morning!

[Elliott]

He can't be that bad, he was on the showboat this morning!

Argh you beat me to it

MAD SKILLZ!

[Sun Tzu]

One of Long's unheralded strengths is his aeriel ability ( I hope that doesn;t mean you can use him to get a picture on your tv....)

Apart from his goals at Norwich it was noticeable against Barnely that he beat Darren Moore to the ball every time - and Moore is a big, experienced centre back.

[Snowball]

Yep, didn't he beat a six-foot-five CB for the second goal at Norwich?

[rg6royal]

His pace and aerial ability are his best attributes, and imo they add alot to the team.

[Snowball]

One more today, please, Shane (from a Kebe cross)

and then a second (from a SHunt cross) with 5 minutes to go...



I shall take my heart pills before the game.

[Spud]

I've decided to break my self established abstinence from the board to add a statement for the prosecution in this case...the ball along the face of the goal in the 44th min to which he turned around and made hand statements making out he was totally surprised by ....I'll give the guy aerial ability but that's about it

[SLAMMED]

'greed. ^^^


And LOL @ brian in a Reading shirt

[Rex]

I've decided to break my self established abstinence from the board to add a statement for the prosecution in this case...the ball along the face of the goal in the 44th min to which he turned around and made hand statements making out he was totally surprised by ....I'll give the guy aerial ability but that's about it

That was a total shocker.

But fair play to Kits for heading himself into the net.

[SteveRoyal]

Showed his inexperience today.
2 chances and he reacted slowly and didn't expect them.

[Snowball]

It's going to be an interesting season..............

[Flip_Flop]

It's going to be an interesting season..............

Got any stats to back your comment up?