We Move On

[Hoop Blah]

He didn't get the 'he's nto fit enough to be involved' treatment from McDermott though did he. I think that speaks volumes about the relationship and trust McDermott has with Guthrie as opposed to Kebe.

[Ian Royal]

Until we'd beaten Everton we were fairly competitive in most games . And hadn't had our share of luck .

We've been missing a few of our key players : McCarthy ( our best player ) , Karacan , Kebe , and more recently: Roberts.

With all of these fit throughout and a rub of the green, we could be 6 points clear of relegation right now. BM hasn't been far off.

His biggest cock-ups ( and I think these are the biggest cock-ups since he took charge ), are the mis-handling of Guthrie and Pearce. I know there are 2 sides to it in both cases, but he should have done better here. Having said that, if the above 4 had stayed fit we might have been ok anyway. As it is , at least one wheel is starting to wobble .

We were taking good positions in games certainly, but we were still throwing points away, I'd argue most of the difference is that the players now don't believe they can get anything out of games - rightly at the moment. One wheel starting to wobble? Just how bad would it have to be for you to say it's worse than one wheel starting to wobble?

[melonhead]

He didn't get the 'he's nto fit enough to be involved' treatment from McDermott though did he. I think that speaks volumes about the relationship and trust McDermott has with Guthrie as opposed to Kebe.

and fair enough.
kebe has proven time and again he can deliver
guthrie hasnt
kebe has proven time and again he is trustworthy,
guthrie hasnt

[Great Knolly]

Until we'd beaten Everton we were fairly competitive in most games . And hadn't had our share of luck .

We've been missing a few of our key players : McCarthy ( our best player ) , Karacan , Kebe , and more recently: Roberts.

With all of these fit throughout and a rub of the green, we could be 6 points clear of relegation right now. BM hasn't been far off.

His biggest cock-ups ( and I think these are the biggest cock-ups since he took charge ), are the mis-handling of Guthrie and Pearce. I know there are 2 sides to it in both cases, but he should have done better here. Having said that, if the above 4 had stayed fit we might have been ok anyway. As it is , at least one wheel is starting to wobble .

We were taking good positions in games certainly, but we were still throwing points away, I'd argue most of the difference is that the players now don't believe they can get anything out of games - rightly at the moment. One wheel starting to wobble? Just how bad would it have to be for you to say it's worse than one wheel starting to wobble?

If I had one wheel wobbling I'd be out of the race , probably .

[Avon Royal]

He didn't get the 'he's nto fit enough to be involved' treatment from McDermott though did he. I think that speaks volumes about the relationship and trust McDermott has with Guthrie as opposed to Kebe.

and fair enough.
kebe has proven time and again he can deliver
guthrie hasnt
kebe has proven time and again he is trustworthy,
guthrie hasnt

And Guthrie has been given what chance exactly?

[Vision]

He didn't get the 'he's nto fit enough to be involved' treatment from McDermott though did he. I think that speaks volumes about the relationship and trust McDermott has with Guthrie as opposed to Kebe.

I do wonder if the rumours about Guthrie missing training sessions might be at play a bit here. It makes it a little harder to truly judge and trust levels of fitness. Was it Guthrie or Pog who had to come off at half time in the practice game against Stevenage the other week?

[Hoop Blah]

I think they both came off didn't they?

[melonhead]

He didn't get the 'he's nto fit enough to be involved' treatment from McDermott though did he. I think that speaks volumes about the relationship and trust McDermott has with Guthrie as opposed to Kebe.

and fair enough.
kebe has proven time and again he can deliver
guthrie hasnt
kebe has proven time and again he is trustworthy,
guthrie hasnt

And Guthrie has been given what chance exactly?

had loads of chances

started games, we lost
came off bench, we lost
two games apart, he didnt realy play very well in these games
when he has proven himself as quality, and trustworthy, he will get the treatment that deserves imo

[Hoop Blah]

I think he did ok when he played, and did very well when played in his proper position.

I'm all for earning respect, trust and your chances in life but when a manager makes quite an effort to bring a player in to (presumably) strengthen his side it must be very frustrating for the player to then find himself being treated like a junior player having to prove himself and play out of position.

It doesn't excuse his reaction, but it does explain some of his lesser performances and general happiness at the club.

[Royalclapper]

Can't recall anything similar with Guthrie in his time at Newcastle, and they had a few mangers in his time there. Why are we now having the aggro? His attitude didn't seem to be an issue prior to joining us.

[Uke]

Can't recall anything similar with Guthrie in his time at Newcastle, and they had a few mangers in his time there. Why are we now having the aggro? His attitude didn't seem to be an issue prior to joining us.

I think the phrases "released by Newcastle United" and "free transfer" could be indicators

[Hoop Blah]

Can't recall anything similar with Guthrie in his time at Newcastle, and they had a few mangers in his time there. Why are we now having the aggro? His attitude didn't seem to be an issue prior to joining us.

I think the phrases "released by Newcastle United" and "free transfer" could be indicators

He reportedly turned down a new contract with them to get first team football at Reading!

[Avon Royal]

and fair enough.
kebe has proven time and again he can deliver
guthrie hasnt
kebe has proven time and again he is trustworthy,
guthrie hasnt

And Guthrie has been given what chance exactly?

had loads of chances

started games, we lost
came off bench, we lost
two games apart, he didnt realy play very well in these games
when he has proven himself as quality, and trustworthy, he will get the treatment that deserves imo

What about all the games "we lost" when he wasn't involved?

[melonhead]

whats that got to do with his performances?

liverpool and spurs- awful, dropped.
at that point you get your head down, work hard in training, wait for your opportunity, from the bench if needs be, and when it happens, & force yourself back into your managers plans.
at no point after being dropped did he really put in a performance that warranted that.

before this awful run, we had won our first game, and had managed to gain 6 other points through draws. it seems sensible to continue with what we were doing to achieve that.
injuries, including guthries, have ruined that approach

[Avon Royal]

before this awful run, we had won our first game, and had managed to gain 6 other points through draws. it seems sensible to continue with what we were doing to achieve that.
injuries, including guthries, have ruined that approach

Fair enough - but that just highlights the failure to change things when things fell off a cliff. Not buying the "injuries" at all, everyone knows what is really going on.

[Ian Royal]

whats that got to do with his performances?

liverpool and spurs- awful, dropped.
at that point you get your head down, work hard in training, wait for your opportunity, from the bench if needs be, and when it happens, & force yourself back into your managers plans.
at no point after being dropped did he really put in a performance that warranted that.

before this awful run, we had won our first game, and had managed to gain 6 other points through draws. it seems sensible to continue with what we were doing to achieve that.
injuries, including guthries, have ruined that approach

The fact is he has played well this season. He hasn't been given much chance, 3 poor league performances (assuming you are correct as I haven't seen WBA or Liverpool) is not loads of chances. And the only one of those poor performances I have seen, his poor performance was far from standout from his teammates. One of the few alternatives to him has been consistently terrible. He offers something positive no one else at the club does and he offers us an option to play a different system.

Now I accepted McDermott's reasoning for dropping him to start with, and I don't say he's acted correctly. But without him, we have got far far worse. With him we were P5, W0, D2, L3, F4, A9. We are now on the sixth loss in a row and haemoragging goals at a far faster rate with F7, A17.

Is he going to save our season on his own? Of course not. But he gives us options that we desperately need and might allow us to pick up a few more points than we will without any changes in midfield.

[melonhead]

before this awful run, we had won our first game, and had managed to gain 6 other points through draws. it seems sensible to continue with what we were doing to achieve that.
injuries, including guthries, have ruined that approach

Fair enough - but that just highlights the failure to change things when things fell off a cliff. Not buying the "injuries" at all, everyone knows what is really going on.

you mean a massive conspiracy?

LOL.



things havent changed when we had no one to bring into the team to change it. as soon as the players come back, it will change

[melonhead]

whats that got to do with his performances?

liverpool and spurs- awful, dropped.
at that point you get your head down, work hard in training, wait for your opportunity, from the bench if needs be, and when it happens, & force yourself back into your managers plans.
at no point after being dropped did he really put in a performance that warranted that.

before this awful run, we had won our first game, and had managed to gain 6 other points through draws. it seems sensible to continue with what we were doing to achieve that.
injuries, including guthries, have ruined that approach

The fact is he has played well this season. He hasn't been given much chance, 3 poor league performances (assuming you are correct as I haven't seen WBA or Liverpool) is not loads of chances. And the only one of those poor performances I have seen, his poor performance was far from standout from his teammates. One of the few alternatives to him has been consistently terrible. He offers something positive no one else at the club does and he offers us an option to play a different system.

Now I accepted McDermott's reasoning for dropping him to start with, and I don't say he's acted correctly. But without him, we have got far far worse. With him we were P5, W0, D2, L3, F4, A9. We are now on the sixth loss in a row and haemoragging goals at a far faster rate with F7, A17.

Is he going to save our season on his own? Of course not. But he gives us options that we desperately need and might allow us to pick up a few more points than we will without any changes in midfield.

thats just the starts. had other chances from the bench, where he was also poor

[melonhead]

We are now on the sixth loss in a row and haemoragging goals at a far faster rate with F7, A17.

which in no way correlates with him being out of the team
you could do the same for the previous 6 games where he also wasnt in the team, and wed have great stats.
the six losses coincide with our injuries.

[bloody Volvo driver]

We are now on the sixth loss in a row and haemoragging goals at a far faster rate with F7, A17.

which in no way correlates with him being out of the team
you could do the same for the previous 6 games where he also wasnt in the team, and wed have great stats.
the six losses coincide with our "injuries".

corrected for you