Even *I* am actually quite concerned

[Royal Rother]

Royalee, I'm struggling to be polite here - your measurement of success is just plain daft.

Brian Clough joined Nottm Forest when they were in Div 2.

He left them when they were in (old style) Div 2.

Obviously Clough's achievements were far greater than Coppell's but they were no better off when he left them than when he joined so on your measuring yardstick I guess he couldn't have achieved much.

I'm sorry there is no comeback to that, however hard you will undoubtedly try.

[Royalee]

Royalee, I'm struggling to be polite here - your measurement of success is just plain daft.

Brian Clough joined Nottm Forest when they were in Div 2.

He left them when they were in (old style) Div 2.

Obviously Clough's achievements were far greater than Coppell's but they were no better off when he left them than when he joined so on your measuring yardstick I guess he couldn't have achieved much.

I'm sorry there is no comeback to that, however hard you will undoubtedly try.

Yes, I'd forgotten Coppell had won us the European Cup and the Premiership and raised our profile dramatically on a shoestring.

[Royal Rother]

He hasn't exactly done as good a job as some of you fools are making out considering we're in pretty much an identical league position to where we were when he took over five years ago - for all the hoo ha and being the 'greatest manager in our history', he doesn't appear to have achieved much.

You referred to opening and closing league positions as being a measurement of achievement.

Whatever level of success attained in the intervening years (Forest's European glories / Reading's record points haul and 8th in the PL) can all be dismissed because by ended up where they started - is effectively what you are saying.

I have merely illustrated the sheer banality of your measurement of success.

Quite obviously, you cannot dismiss what happened in the intervening years. End of.

(God I hate that expression but there really isn't anything more to add.)

[Alan Partridge]

Playing Devil's Advocat, if you want to use history of Coppell's tenure and not the present day to back up why he is the best man for the job, then why not use 2004/5 when we didn't win in about 2 months, barely if at all scored and played some of the worst football seen at Reading FC? Including a defeat at Rotherham who picked up about 10 points and 2 wins all season. Surely this history is just as valid as the last 2 of the last 3 seasons?

I think on the football side, the team now isn't that much better than the one inherited in all honesty. It must be 1 of the only clubs in history that have allowed 4 of their best players to leave and then not suitably replaced any of them! That's the biggest thing anyone will hold against him right now, along with his complete lack of any bottle whatsoever to make changes. 'Too loyal to the players' Next weeks back 4, Rosenior, Sonko, Ingimarsson, Hunt. 'I always look for a reaction after a poor result' You'd have thought after leaving a season in the hands of these players who then got RELEGATED he'd have learnt that most of them shouldn't be trusted and should be replaced.

Having said that Coppell's tenure has had more highs than lows including 2 sensational seasons that will never be beaten IMO, unless Abramovich's brother decides to buy Reading. Where do you go from there? Coppell's team has ran it's course, his favourites are failing and he hasn't got the guts or bottle to replace them, IMO (this isn't knee jerk after Saturday) I think Coppell has had his time here and he isn't the right man to take Reading up again. I was 60-40 him staying in the summer, no stand out signings or any significant money spent despite the money still rolling into the club has gone totally against what he said a few months ago. We've ended up with a lopsided and understrength squad totally lacking in quality and more important confidence.

When Coppell goes he'll probably be regarded as RFC's best manager and will be highly thought of and remembered, I just think for the benefit of everyone it would be better happening sooner rather than later.

[madreadingfan]

URZZZZZ

[Jackson Corner]

Out of interest for those SC doubters who do they think would do a better job who is currently out of management? Or managing elsewhere? Sanchez, Parky, Billy Davies?

[Royal Rother]

Playing Devil's Advocat, if you want to use history of Coppell's tenure and not the present day to back up why he is the best man for the job, then why not use 2004/5 when we didn't win in about 2 months, barely if at all scored and played some of the worst football seen at Reading FC? Including a defeat at Rotherham who picked up about 10 points and 2 wins all season. Surely this history is just as valid as the last 2 of the last 3 seasons?

Don't you see? I am using that!

2004/5 was awful - crap football, long periods of seemingly helpless inactivity from the management, apparent inability to inspire the team etc. etc.

Then a couple of relatively cheap signings an WHAM BAM we have 2005/6 and 2006/7. Whatever some people might like to say now, that didn't happen by chance.

He may not be the person to make big-name signings required to push on once we get back to the PL, but if people can just have patience and faith and live with the fact that he is slow to make changes, then Coppell he will take us back up. Constant tinkering in an attempt to get things right just isn't his style - he will observe what's going on in his thoughtful and measured style and make his move when he considers the time is right.

No-one can get it right all the time, but his style has brought success again and again and I just don't see any reason to think it won't do so again.

He hasn't changed at all.

Having experienced the almost undreamed of successes of 2005/6 and 2006/7 it is the the fans who have changed.

How sad is that?

[papereyes]

Then a couple of relatively cheap signings an WHAM BAM we have 2005/6 and 2006/7. Whatever some people might like to say now, that didn't happen by chance.

Just as a point of note, wasn't one of them a club record at the time? Further to that, hadn't we also set another club record signing the previous season?

In the grand scheme of things - cheap. But for most clubs around us ... ? Not that cheap.

[Platypuss]

Then a couple of relatively cheap signings an WHAM BAM we have 2005/6 and 2006/7. Whatever some people might like to say now, that didn't happen by chance.

Just as a point of note, wasn't one of them a club record at the time? Further to that, hadn't we also set another club record signing the previous season?

In the grand scheme of things - cheap. But for most clubs around us ... ? Not that cheap.

Yet probably still more than we spent this close season!

[papereyes]

But that's because we've got no money, made no money from transfers and our income has been cut to levels only £11 million (or whatever it is) higher than last time we were here.

[Barry the bird boggler]

Out of interest for those SC doubters who do they think would do a better job who is currently out of management? Or managing elsewhere? Sanchez, Parky, Billy Davies?

Anyone seriously think that JM would appoint anyone other than Kevin Dillon as a replacement for SC?

Any new manager coming in would nor know the squad and therefore have new ideas which, in turn, would mean spending money.

While SC is in charge I don't care who plays for the club as long as standards are at least being maintained or improved. Currently I don't see that, all I see is a club seemingly showing no ambition with a stale squad unable to live up to their previous achievements.

[Huntley & Palmer]

The thing that worries me more than anything else, is the lethargy within the team. You have a number of players that know that no matter what happens, while fit they will always be first choice. You can understand this if they have performed consistently well over the last few seasons but unfortunately these are the players that got us relegated last season. There are a number of young lads and fringe players that are straining at the leash to be given a run out, inject some youthful enthusiasm into proceedings. For the life of me, I can't figure out why they are not being used.

Karacan seemed to be a beacon of light in the pre season games, he has the possibility of a chance with Marek getting injured in the first game of the season against Forest. Cisse is brought straight in, a man who has never looked comfortable in midfield for us so far and has done nothing other than give the ball away in dangerous areas of the pitch. Sonko, whilst our top scorer currently, has been his usual incosistent self whilst defending. He allows players with pace to go past him with ease, not even closing down that much and also giving away yet more penalties and stupid sendings off. Doyle has been way off the pace for over a season now, has shown none of the form that we saw in the first two seasons at this level and in the Premiership and must surely be the lowest man in the squad. He must be replaced and made to fight for his place, I don't even really care who replaces him. Noel Hunt looked more dangerous in the short period he was on the pitch against Charlton than either of our two current strikers have done in the other two games.

The blame lies solely with Coppell, he has been too loyal to his players and refuses to change it up. He has to sort it out now or go before we hit January

[Agent Balti]

It's often said you learn more from defeats than victories, I can believe it's true. Just what does SC learn from our defeats (not just Saturday, but last year also) - absolutely nothing, so it seems - not nowadays. As Huntley says, no player seems to be accountable for their errors as they are almost certain to appear on the teamsheet in the same positon they finished the last game.

The thinking that "he'll do better next time" does not stack up when you've got a team that's bereft of confidence throughout. A surefire sign of a struggling team is long ball football, not by design but by panic. They do not want to be the one that makes 'the' mistake, so as long as they play the lowest risk pass, 8ft in the air, to where it goes nobody knows; then that's them happy. It won't make Coppell happy as I'm sure that's not what he's told the players to do - but it's happening. Until that changes, until personnel are dropped for someone else to do a better job then we're just hoping for a result, especially away from home.

That's the concern, tactics borne out of training, training which isn't applied (long ball isn't the trained tactic, for sure) all leading to the mish-mash of results we've been having for a year or so.

[papereyes]

It's often said you learn more from defeats than victories, I can believe it's true.

If you win, you are more tempted to overlook the weaker areas of the performance. Essentially, the comeback "But we won and football is a results game"

I don't quite get it.

You simply do not get good results over a long timescale if you are playing badly.

[Royal Rother]

I think I agree with almost everything said in the last 3 posts, it's just that I have this (some might say naive) belief that he will make the necessary changes sooner rather than later.

[Alan Partridge]

I think I agree with almost everything said in the last 3 posts, it's just that I have this (some might say naive) belief that he will make the necessary changes sooner rather than later.

I thought you calimed to be an intelligent man RR! Blimey that IS naieve!

Reading FC - I'm looking froward to seeing 'Sonko and Ingimarsson' 'Harper & Cisse' 'Doyle and Lita'

I think the last partnership as shit as those 3 was Hale and Pace

[Huntley & Palmer]

I think I agree with almost everything said in the last 3 posts, it's just that I have this (some might say naive) belief that he will make the necessary changes sooner rather than later.

He will have to, otherwise the crowd will be calling for him to be sacked and the whole SOS campaign will be a rather embarrassing charade

[Royal Rother]

I think I agree with almost everything said in the last 3 posts, it's just that I have this (some might say naive) belief that he will make the necessary changes sooner rather than later.

I thought you calimed to be an intelligent man RR! Blimey that IS naieve!

Can't you learn to spell, thicko?!

[Alan Partridge]

I'm not as intelligent as you, give me a break.

[Scarface]

I'm actually pleased we suffered a thumping Saturday, as the results so far this year have papered over the considerable cracks in the team and the terrible performances dished up. I only hope Coppell smells the coffee and signs a few this week plus making some much needed changes for the Palace game Saturday. Like last season, what frustrates me, is many fans could see this happening, why can't he ?

I really do think his loyalty to the players is clouding his judgement, as he firmly believes they are better than they actually are.