Simon Church

[Basingstoke Royal]

Church scored three to alf one. How many minutes did they play?

Anyone that understands the game can see that ALF is different class to Church.

He's so different class he has decided to score the same amount of goals so far this season as Church. He could have more goals but he missed those sitters at Blackpool and Palace to make Churchy feel better about himself.

Church isn't anywhere near as bad as people make him out to be and Le Fondre isn't as good as people make him out to be either.

So far all I have heard is he runs.

The stats tell the truth and Le Fondre Wins. And more importantly the hunt and Le Fondre relationship is more suited than church and anybody.

[Basingstoke Royal]

Yes we would have won by a couple.

[Snowball]

(ALF is) so different class he has decided to score the same amount of goals so far this season as Church. He could have more goals but he missed those sitters at Blackpool and Palace to make Churchy feel better about himself.

Church isn't anywhere near as bad as people make him out to be and Le Fondre isn't as good as people make him out to be either.

Oh come on, ALF is clearly the better one on the stats, even with this barren run he had


1,447 Minutes 11 Major Contributions one every 131 Minutes 6 Goals 5 Assists ALF (RFC Games)
1,347 Minutes 07 Major Contributions one every 192 Minutes 6 Goals 1 Assists CHURCH

Alf is getting a goal or assist in better than 1.5 games playing time

Church is taking 2.15 games. That's a big difference

In terms of point-winning Alf is beating Churchy 10-5


ALF has had some excellent assists and been unlucky with some killer passes
where the receiver then wasted the pass. And remember he has had to "bed in"
at RFC. IMO, given the right regular partner (Noel up front for now) he'd be fantastic.

[SCIAG]

(ALF is) so different class he has decided to score the same amount of goals so far this season as Church. He could have more goals but he missed those sitters at Blackpool and Palace to make Churchy feel better about himself.

Church isn't anywhere near as bad as people make him out to be and Le Fondre isn't as good as people make him out to be either.

Oh come on, ALF is clearly the better one on the stats, even with this barren run he had


1,447 Minutes 11 Major Contributions one every 131 Minutes 6 Goals 5 Assists ALF (RFC Games)
1,347 Minutes 07 Major Contributions one every 192 Minutes 6 Goals 1 Assists CHURCH

Depends what stats you use. In goals alone (you did say "ALF is the best goal scorer we have"), Church takes about 13 minutes less to score. That's so insignificant that it is silly to claim one is better at scoring than the other, particularly considering when those minutes are and the slightly different roles they play.

The "Church is rubbish, ALF is great" opinion is as ridiculous as the "get Feds out now" stuff, or the "Mills can't defend" tripe. ALF has the edge, but neither is playing particularly well because they aren't getting the service they need.

[Ian Royal]

His lack of impact tonight wasn't through any lack of quality on his part

Feel free to itemise ANY examples of quality Church produced.

Just in case you're getting confused, Church was the blonde one who ran around like a headless chicken treating the ball as if it was a grenade that had already had it's pin removed whilst Le Fondre replaced him with 10mins to go and almost immediately produced a rare moment of quality to win the game.

Trying reading the post directly above yours for some examples of what he added to the game, where I've done exactly that.

[Ian Royal]

How many goals has ALF (Who I really like) scored in the last 8 games?

Based on the season ALF is MILES better than Church
in terms of goals and assists per minute played

Over Last 8 League Games

2 Goals in 467 Minutes Alf
4 Goals in 574 Minutes Church



10 1 80 0
29 0 61 0
62 0 90 0
75 0 88 0
90 0 90 1
90 0 26 2
90 0 70 0
21 1 69 1


467 Minutes 2 Goals ALF
574 Minutes 4 Goals Church


Of course Churchy gets a massive boost for his 26 minute Cameo where he got two goals

Without that one game it would be

377 Minutes 2 Goals 1 every 188 Minutes ALF
548 Minutes 2 Goals 1 every 274 Minutes Church

That's why we need to assess over the maximum number of games,
and ALF is way better than anyone else when so measured

Current form is rather important. And I haven't said anywhere that Church is better than ALF. Nor have I said anywhere ALF isn't any good. Just to clarify for those who seem to be struggling with it, the point is that Church isn't shit.

[rfc2001]

Anyone trying to defend Church in a comparison to ALF is an idiot my book.

ALF is clearly the better all round player. He has the ability to link play, a good first touch and he can actually thread in a pass.

Yes the goals scored are equal but ALF has more assists has got a proven track record of scoring goals. I don't care what league it was in because I will argue he was playing with worse players.

[rfc2001]

I remember watching church come on against Burnley in the play offs. He was useless then and he's useless now!!

[Ian Royal]

Anyone trying to defend Church in a comparison to ALF is an idiot my book.

ALF is clearly the better all round player. He has the ability to link play, a good first touch and he can actually thread in a pass.

Yes the goals scored are equal but ALF has more assists has got a proven track record of scoring goals. I don't care what league it was in because I will argue he was playing with worse players.

Anyone thinking I was doing so is an idiot... just in case that's aimed at me..

[georgerob]

Church has been disappointing so far this season as I thought he would step up and shine after Shane Long left.
Church never seems to be involved much in play and in games and when he does receive the ball he usually gets dispossessed and does not do anything useful and effective with the ball.
Lately Church does not seem to make many runs around the box to create opportunities for himself and is very static in the area. His movement and positioning have been poor which suggests he does not want the ball played to him as maybe due to his lack of confidence and belief he feels he might make a mistake when on the ball and consequently be scrutinised and criticised furthermore.
On the other hand Church is willing to run around closing down the opposition as I think he knows when doing this he is less likely to get the ball and make an error, but will receive praise for doing this job on the pitch.
Therefore I think Church’s confidence is low at the moment and this is therefore affecting the way he is contributing to games and playing or McDermott’s instructions to Church are resulting in Church playing like he has recently.

[Woodcote Royal]

His lack of impact tonight wasn't through any lack of quality on his part

Feel free to itemise ANY examples of quality Church produced.

Just in case you're getting confused, Church was the blonde one who ran around like a headless chicken treating the ball as if it was a grenade that had already had it's pin removed whilst Le Fondre replaced him with 10mins to go and almost immediately produced a rare moment of quality to win the game.

Trying reading the post directly above yours for some examples of what he added to the game, where I've done exactly that.

I read your post above and watched the game on TV.

Church's effort throughout the game is beyond question and there's no doubting that the ground he covered would have been a big part of what Brian McDermott wanted from him.

However, either you didn't read my post in the way you expect everyone to read your own or, years of watching little live football has given you a rather odd sense of "quality"

From what I recall of Church last night, I doubt he'd have scored if he was still playing now and I'm struggling to remember a decent pass or ANYTHING that would be defined as "quality" on a football pitch by those with no more than a reasonable understanding of the game....................... but feel free to enlighten me.

[Rex]

Church has been disappointing so far this season as I thought he would step up and shine after Shane Long left.
Church never seems to be involved much in play and in games and when he does receive the ball he usually gets dispossessed and does not do anything useful and effective with the ball.
Lately Church does not seem to make many runs around the box to create opportunities for himself and is very static in the area. His movement and positioning have been poor which suggests he does not want the ball played to him as maybe due to his lack of confidence and belief he feels he might make a mistake when on the ball and consequently be scrutinised and criticised furthermore.
On the other hand Church is willing to run around closing down the opposition as I think he knows when doing this he is less likely to get the ball and make an error, but will receive praise for doing this job on the pitch.
Therefore I think Church’s confidence is low at the moment and this is therefore affecting the way he is contributing to games and playing or McDermott’s instructions to Church are resulting in Church playing like he has recently.

Even Shane kick started and clicked.

[Royalee]

It's all very well McDermott praising Church for running himself into the ground, but running about is only good if you're applying pressure to the opposition and forcing them into mistakes which Le Fondre does like when he forced their defender into a poor header which led to a shot for us deflected for a corner which we scored from. I'd take any money we can get for Church as he's the least technically gifted, weakest and least intelligent of our forwards and I'd put Le Fondre and Hunt well ahead of him and I'm sure Sheppard will be an improvement.

Fair play to Le Fondre, he's a goalscorer and gets himself into great positions and can finish - what would be interesting to see is his shots per game to Church's and where they're taken from, I bet he gets a lot more chances in dangerous areas due to being better at sniffing chances out and positioning himself to take them.

[Royal With Cheese]

I remember thinking exactly the same about Long - and spookily enough it was after one particularly hapless effort against Watford Away last season he hit a string of form that ultimately led to our great form int he second half of the season.

However, the difference that I can see between the two is that Long actually managed to miss chances. Last night I don't think Church had a single clear cut opportunity to score. That, for me, sets the two apart at the moment.

[winchester_royal]

Not to mention the fact that Long is quicker, stronger, has a better jump, and actually has some natural footballing ability.

[RoyalJames101]

I remember watching church come on against Burnley in the play offs. He was useless then and he's useless now!!

Funny that, because he didn't come on.

Thought he played well yesterday, really worked hard again and I'm sure he'll start to get a few goals when the chances fall too him.

Le Fondre had one chance yesterday and took it. Church didn't have any chances yesterday, so it's not exactly his fault.

Give the guy a break.

[Basingstoke Royal]

I remember watching church come on against Burnley in the play offs. He was useless then and he's useless now!!

Funny that, because he didn't come on.

Thought he played well yesterday, really worked hard again and I'm sure he'll start to get a few goals when the chances fall too him.

Le Fondre had one chance yesterday and took it. Church didn't have any chances yesterday, so it's not exactly his fault.

Give the guy a break.

He made his debut against Burnley in the playoffs. The point is he hasn't improved at all since the. which is a real shame. He has been given a real chance this season and hasn't taken it. Persisting with him could cost us between now and the end of the season.

[Snowball]

[quote="SCIAG"]
Depends what stats you use. In goals alone (you did say "ALF is the best goal scorer we have"), Church takes about 13 minutes less to score. That's so insignificant that it is silly to claim one is better at scoring than the other, particularly considering when those minutes are and the slightly different roles they play.
[/quote

You cannot HONESTLY ignore the other stuff ALF has done. His assists score is excellent and shows
how much of a team-player he is AS WELL AS BEING our top scorer, and this at a time when it looks
like he's out of favour a little bit and therefore likely to have lower confidence.

He is also the best player we have for making a GREAT pass or a defence-splitting pass
and but for some bad luck, poor play by others some of those other passes should have made great goals.

Church is, IMO EASY to play against. Try watching his a bit more. Many of those "chasing down"
runs are 20-30-40-50 yards runs and they are going to matter about 1-2-3 times a season.

They are, IMO, as showy as some of Feds' saves.

Long HURT opponents. He made them BLEED. He BATTERED them. He ran his guts out, all
games, harder, and braver and with more determination on an off day than Church at his best

Hunt too, he's like a focking TERRIER never giving defenders peace. That is why premiership defenders said
the pair wore the out and never stopped, that's why the PAIRING Long and Hunt was so useful, and why, at
least there's the WBA rumour.

I don't want to knock Church and I believe that eventually he will find a role, but he isn't remotely nasty
enough to be a main striker. He isn't brave enough or stupid enough.

And when did this list MORPH? It used to be said that Church had all the ball-skills and LONG had
the first touch of a rapist

[Snowball]

How can we say Church didn't improve?

He had a 12-goal season at a goal every 180 minutes!!

That's why I'm disappointed now,


Last year he lost confidence as Long took off, but he hasn't grabbed his chance

Older, should be stronger and faster and more experienced, he should at least be in double figures
and hoping for 20 goals in the season.


The test for me is when I see a name on the team sheet do I get a lift or groan?

The second test is when a player is brought on as a sub.



TBF once, when Long started we groaned, but he was an OK sub.

it's jsut (for me at least) I never imagine Churchy MAKING a goal. doing something WOW.

I think he might FLUKE a goal (cos that's Churchy) or get a tap in, but he never excites me.

[Ian Royal]

It's all very well McDermott praising Church for running himself into the ground, but running about is only good if you're applying pressure to the opposition and forcing them into mistakes

You mean like the numerous times he harried the defence / keeper into clearing it straight into touch / to a Reading player?