What do people expect from a football team and manager

[Snowflake Royal]

Just brought in too many signings and moved others on who we had connection with

I think this is fair in the main, but worth considering how much of the summer was in our hands. We were down to seven pros at one point, right?

We had to bring in signings, there’s a few players I think we should have kept but not much happening if they want to leave.

Add in the manager change which almost ensures a busy winter transfer window.

Yeah, can we get some details on who these players we had a connection with who could have been kept rather than moved on please?

Because I expect it’s empty criticism based on players there was zero chance of keeping and most people were sanguine about at the time.

[Armadillo Roadkill]

I believe short attention spans and the desire for instant gratification are to blame for how we feel when we don't have results + performance + effort + team connection...

Some ppl are saying they would swap results for a young team with 'connection'...

I don't buy that - ppl forget how quickly bad results got toxic in the recent past..

I am not completely bowled over by the football, but given the explicit remit of the manager is to improve on last season's 7th place, he's hardly missing his KPIs at the moment...

I also remember the Championship winning season under Brian McD being one of grinding results out of very little against better 'footballing' teams...

My one issue is with the 'media training' word salad business mumbo jumbo interviews he gives that generally add nothing to the sum of human knowledge...

But Noel was no better...

^^^^^ This.

We're in a period of transition. If things are still this way in League 1 in October then I will be pretty vocal in demand a change, but for now, I'm prepared to be patient. What I want, in this order, is:

The club to survive
To avoid relegation and the "re-set" that would be League 2
Effort and application from the players
Win more home games than lose
OK football
Liquid football
A roller disco
With a last minute winner on the last day of the Premier League season, to relegate the Manchester Super Reds and qualify for the Champion's League.

[Esteban]

The period since Richardson came in reminds me of when Pardew came in. Functional football, not particularly pretty, but it picked up points. I think Richardson has a better squad to use than Pardew did at the time, so there is some fair criticism of the style of play - though football has obviously changed a lot in the interim 25+ years. Bit early to be calling for his head though, especially given where we were under Noel and the improvement in points per game since then.

[Hound]

I’d also add it’s perfectly reasonable to be critical of tactics, performances, results, selections without for one minute wanting the manager sacked now or anytime soon

I’m very interested to see what happens in the summer, that’ll certainly be when we get to see what LR wants the team to be

[Snowflake Royal]

Yeah. It's one thing expressing frustrations at individual mistakes, selection, tactics, subs etc and reasoned critique.

It's entirely different to start complaining about results, saying the manager/players/ownership/club is shit and x should go or being abusive about or to them.

Just chill the oxf*rd out and let the rage go... it's just football. It’s not the end of the world or some sort of disaster.

[MartinRdg]

It's a results business for Leam to justify his methods to the owner.

For fans who attend to be entertained, it's not a results business. If all you care about is points accumulated, is football really for you? Rugby has more points in a game.

Football is and has always been about being excited and entertained. There is no other reason to turn up and watch OTHER people play sport. Because you want to be impressed.

There is nothing impressive about playing 10 men behind the ball against bottom of the division whilst winning, 4 days after having done the same tactic and been found out.

Couhig has commented that attendances are not as high as they expected. Perhaps he needs to work out he is in the entertainment business, and Leam is not an entertainer.

Finally someone who gets it !

Unfortunately, LR will be judged by RC on points accumulated this season and not entertainment rating....

[Brogue]

It's a results business for Leam to justify his methods to the owner.

For fans who attend to be entertained, it's not a results business. If all you care about is points accumulated, is football really for you? Rugby has more points in a game.

Football is and has always been about being excited and entertained. There is no other reason to turn up and watch OTHER people play sport. Because you want to be impressed.

There is nothing impressive about playing 10 men behind the ball against bottom of the division whilst winning, 4 days after having done the same tactic and been found out.

Couhig has commented that attendances are not as high as they expected. Perhaps he needs to work out he is in the entertainment business, and Leam is not an entertainer.

Finally someone who gets it !

Unfortunately, LR will be judged by RC on points accumulated this season and not entertainment rating....

i think tickets sold will also have a bearing.

[Elm Park Kid]

Some of what we're feeling right now is just a natural reaction to what's happened in the past 18 months. The constant stress and drama of Dai, combined with an unlikely play off hunt and genuinely enjoyable games has given way to the mundane. Sensible owner, sensible manager, sensible recruitment. There's obviously a plan of trying to create a hard to beat team that will eventually evolve into one that is more confident going forward. But it's pretty boring right now.

Reading is clearly a big team in this league and by next season I want that to show on the pitch. We need to stop being scared - you don't win play offs by playing defensively, we should have learnt that by now.

[stealthpapes]

Brogue: You mentioned average attendances elsewhere - do you have the numbers to hand by any chance?

[Brogue]

Brogue: You mentioned average attendances elsewhere - do you have the numbers to hand by any chance?

this seasons average is 11,495... so far.

only two seasons had fewer people through the door in the last 27 years (since we moved to the SCL).

1999 we had an average 11262 which we are close to losing to, and the year 2000 where the average attendance was 8985.

Continue as we are, losing 1k fans a game off the average, over the last few seasons, we will be in elm park territory for attendances for next season.

Our last 2 homes games Exeter 8404 and Bolton 10,025 (both Tuesday nights)

Next game is a Saturday 3pm against Bradford who have sold quite a few, so it will be a good litmus test to see how many we get in the home end.

[fred sharpes nose]

Attendances we are sixth 11495, Barnsley next 11189

Interestingly on percentage of capacity we are in bottom 4
21st Reading 47.6%
22nd Barnsley 46.6%
23rd Port Vale 39.6
24th Wigan 38.7%

Must have some bearing on atmosphere and team performance

[stealthpapes]

Cheers.

Yeah, not particularly surprised we're down to roughly where we were the last time we were in League 1. The longer term trend of shedding the Championship/Premiership fans is one that might take time to reverse.

Away fan attendances do feel like they're holding up and strong.

[Vision]

The period since Richardson came in reminds me of when Pardew came in. Functional football, not particularly pretty, but it picked up points. I think Richardson has a better squad to use than Pardew did at the time, so there is some fair criticism of the style of play - though football has obviously changed a lot in the interim 25+ years. Bit early to be calling for his head though, especially given where we were under Noel and the improvement in points per game since then.

We didn't really pick up points when Pardew came in though. I remember him and Gorman getting dog's abuse on a weekly basis because we were struggling so match. Gorman squared up to fans after one uninspiring performance. It was only when Gorman was replaced by Martin Allen that the results really started to pick up.

But I agree with the point. This is a transition period whether we like it or not. Results in general have been pretty good even if the performances haven't but I remember LR being asked what type of football he plays and his reply was "winning football". I wouldn't hold out much hope of free flowing football any time soon.

My major gripe is this whole notion of "game management". His first game was Carlisle when we spunked a 2 goal lead in injury team. He dismissed this as part of the reason he was brought in, basically puttting it down as a failing of previous management. Well conceding 2 injury time winners in a week is very much now his failing. A novel way of protecting a goal lead might be to go get another goal!

[Clyde1998]

Brogue: You mentioned average attendances elsewhere - do you have the numbers to hand by any chance?

this seasons average is 11,495... so far.

only two seasons had fewer people through the door in the last 27 years (since we moved to the SCL).

1999 we had an average 11262 which we are close to losing to, and the year 2000 where the average attendance was 8985.

Continue as we are, losing 1k fans a game off the average, over the last few seasons, we will be in elm park territory for attendances for next season.

Our last 2 homes games Exeter 8404 and Bolton 10,025 (both Tuesday nights)

Next game is a Saturday 3pm against Bradford who have sold quite a few, so it will be a good litmus test to see how many we get in the home end.

Sadly, there's a lot of incomplete figures in the early seasons (only really able to get the away followings from big matches to work this out), but when just looking at home supporters:

1. 1999 - 11,596 (based on 8 matches; overall average for those games of 14,082)
2. 2000 - 7,929 (based on 13 matches; overall average for those games of 9,741)
3. 2001 - 11,326
4. 2002 - 12,373 (missing last home game vs Peterborough; overall average of 13,750 for other matches)
5. 2003 - 13,775 (based on 16 matches; overall average for those games of 15,545)
6. 2004 - 13,337
7. 2005 - 15,126 (missing last home game vs Wolves; overall average of 17,018 for other matches)
8. 2006 - 18,055 (missing last two home against vs Stoke and QPR; overall average of 20,006 for other matches)
9. 2007 - 21,858
10. 2008 - 21,686
11. 2009 - 18,183
12. 2010 - 15,744
13. 2011 - 15,934
14. 2012 - 17,508
15. 2013 - 21,812
16. 2014 - 17,715
17. 2015 - 15,347
18. 2016 - 15,671
19. 2017 - 15,731
20. 2018 - 14,720
21. 2019 - 13,444
22. 2020 - 12,870 (until Covid suspension)
23. 2021 - Covid
24. 2022 - 11,771 (missing opening game vs Preston; overall average for those games of )
25. 2023 - 12,543
26. 2024 - 11,836
27. 2025 - 11,658
28. 2026 - 10,696

When just looking at home supporters on weekends/bank holidays:

1. 1999 - 12,026 (based on 7 of 19 matches; overall average for those games of 14,654)
2. 2000 - 8,235 (based on 9 of 18 matches; overall average for those games of 10,010)
3. 2001 - 11,596 (total average of 13,004)
4. 2002 - 13,054 (missing last home game against Peterborough; overall average of 14,640 for other matches)
5. 2003 - 14,375 (based on 10 of 14 matches; overall average for those games of 16,334)
6. 2004 - 13,748 (total average of 15,695)
7. 2005 - 15,263 (missing last home game against Wolves; overall average of 17,229 for other matches)
8. 2006 - 18,037 (missing last two home against against Stoke and QPR; overall average of 19,939 for other matches)
9. 2007 - 21,867 (total average of 23,913)
10. 2008 - 21,668 (total average of 23,474)
11. 2009 - 18,459 (total average of 20,511)
12. 2010 - 16,021 (total average of 17,704)
13. 2011 - 16,018 (total average of 17,724)
14. 2012 - 17,599 (total average of 19,553)
15. 2013 - 21,858 (total average of 23,894)
16. 2014 - 17,945 (total average of 19,472)
17. 2015 - 15,912 (total average of 17,774)
18. 2016 - 16,323 (total average of 18,261)
19. 2017 - 16,285 (total average of 17,978)
20. 2018 - 15,665 (total average of 17,806)
21. 2019 - 13,583 (total average of 15,177)
22. 2020 - 13,289 (until Covid suspension; total average of 14,842)
23. 2021 - Covid
24. 2022 - 12,772 (missing opening game vs Preston; overall average for those games of 14,410)
25. 2023 - 13,491 (total average of 15,070)
26. 2024 - 12,879 (total average of 14,242)
27. 2025 - 12,523 (total average of 13,540)
28. 2026 - 11,837 (total average of 12,736)

One point to note is we have significantly more season ticket holders at present than in 1999-2000, so numbers won't fall to that level this season. STHs generally turn up as they've already got a ticket. A big drop in STHs next season could see home crowds drop below 10,000 on average though, if we're not careful. Currently on course for our worst weekend/bank holiday average aside from that season though.

[stealthpapes]

It does feel that the biggest driver is the division we’re in, then perceived standing within the league then actual standing within the league.

It’s mildly interesting that there’s a bump on actual promotion campaigns vs near misses (00-01 vs 01-02 where the gap is 1 position) but also 10-11 vs 11-12 vs 16-17.

Relegation drops fans but so does hanging around a division.

[Stranded]

It does feel that the biggest driver is the division we’re in, then perceived standing within the league then actual standing within the league.

It’s mildly interesting that there’s a bump on actual promotion campaigns vs near misses (00-01 vs 01-02 where the gap is 1 position) but also 10-11 vs 11-12 vs 16-17.

Relegation drops fans but so does hanging around a division.

Most fans who are staying away will be blissfully unaware of how well the team is/isn't playing and probably only mildly aware of the league position - why? because they are floating fans - our hardcore is probably around what we are seeing now. The key difference is people are less likely to spend any spare money on L1 football - put simply, a more casual Reading fan is going to be less enticed to get off the sofa to go and watch us play say Burton than West Brom.

[Linden Jones' Tash]

Finally someone who gets it !

Unfortunately, LR will be judged by RC on points accumulated this season and not entertainment rating....

i think tickets sold will also have a bearing.

Serious Question: do League One managers have explicit KPIs linked to Tickets Sold?

I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if that was the case, given how few levers a Manager has to pull in terms of pricing, promotional and marketing spend, etc...

Can you imagine the meeting:

RC: we need an extra 2k on the gate on Saturday
LR: OK, cancel the fireworks, fire Kingsley and give me the money for a kids for a quid discount scheme...
RC: over my dead body...
LR: then my hands are tied...

[Stranded]

Just chill the oxf*rd out and let the rage go... it's just football. It’s not the end of the world or some sort of disaster.

Very much this - sport is of course meant to be entertaining but unlike many other forms of entertainment such as cinema, concerts, theatre you have absolutely no guarantee of what you are going to get.

You could go and watch the two best teams in the world and still get a game low on quality and entertainment or you could go watch Ascot v Bracknell and be hugely entertained.

That is the Russian roulette of live sport and it is magnified more in football than many other sports and certainly other forms of entertainment. Your ticket only guarantees you a space in the stadium and nothing else.

Of course we all want to be entertained and I understand the frustration in a lot of quarters at the style of play but not being entertained is the risk you take when attending a live sporting event.

All in all, we want our team to be playing at the highest level it possibly can which realistically for us is probably the Champ (with the odd dalliance with the Prem) so if playing pragmatic, mostly dull football is a means to an end then so be it. To date, it hasn't got us there but it has got us closer than we looked like being even 4 months ago.

[Brogue]

It does feel that the biggest driver is the division we’re in, then perceived standing within the league then actual standing within the league.

It’s mildly interesting that there’s a bump on actual promotion campaigns vs near misses (00-01 vs 01-02 where the gap is 1 position) but also 10-11 vs 11-12 vs 16-17.

Relegation drops fans but so does hanging around a division.

Most fans who are staying away will be blissfully unaware of how well the team is/isn't playing and probably only mildly aware of the league position - why? because they are floating fans - our hardcore is probably around what we are seeing now. The key difference is people are less likely to spend any spare money on L1 football - put simply, a more casual Reading fan is going to be less enticed to get off the sofa to go and watch us play say Burton than West Brom.

Not disagreeing with you, i think you’re right, that the numbers we are getting through the gate are probably our hardcore number. What i do find surprising is that number is so low. We are at 1998 levels of support. in the last 28 years we achieved premier league football for three years an FA cup semi final at Wembley and multiple play off campaigns in the second tier of football. That's a whole generation of stable sustained success for a club that's historically been a 3rd tier team. In that time the town its self has grown immeasurably the population has boomed. The recent years of success attracted more fans, and they will have had children, and possibly those kids are even having children themselves, who will go to the games and become lifelong Reading FC fans. I just find it really odd that basically our core fan base hasn't increased in 30 years despite a generation or 2 of unpresented success when compared to our history.

[Brogue]

Unfortunately, LR will be judged by RC on points accumulated this season and not entertainment rating....

i think tickets sold will also have a bearing.

Serious Question: do League One managers have explicit KPIs linked to Tickets Sold?

I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if that was the case, given how few levers a Manager has to pull in terms of pricing, promotional and marketing spend, etc...

Can you imagine the meeting:

RC: we need an extra 2k on the gate on Saturday
LR: OK, cancel the fireworks, fire Kingsley and give me the money for a kids for a quid discount scheme...
RC: over my dead body...
LR: then my hands are tied...

Managers won't have that as a KPI no. But the owners want to make money from this project. They are looking at the club as business not as a fan. If the shit being served up on the pitch is driving fans away then its going to be a consideration for them.