Doncaster match thread sponsored by Rugby on in the pub!

[rabidbee]

On the subject of harsh penalties, who remembers the one awarded against Halford on his debut at Spurs. There was no way he could do anything about that, as the ball flicked up off the strikers foot to hit his fore-arm, which he was holding against his side. No way he intended it, but the ref judged that he had gained control of the ball with his arm (although I can't see how anybody could think it was anything but accidental).

Copell's conclusion on the subject: "Nowadays you see penalties given after balls are smashed at people from a yard away. I think there has to be some sort of guidance for referees. If you raise your arm and the ball hits you, then yes, 100 per cent a penalty. But sometimes it is just unavoidable."

[westendgirl]

If it's accidental there is an argument it's not even a penalty, let alone a red card.!

it doesn't neeed to be deliberately handled to be handball.

The "deliberate" part concerns the position of the arm - i.e. was his arm in a natural position or had he deliberately positioned his arm? If your arm is out, then even if you are looking in the other direction, it's handball. If your arm is in a natural position and the ball hits it, then even it it prevents a certain goal, it's not handball.

With this one, there didn't look to be anything at all unnatural about his stance, and the ball came straight at him. There would be grounds for saying it's not handball, but he makes so much contact with the ball, dragging it round, that hardly any refs wouldn't give it.

Once given then there's no choice but to give a red card. It was a foul that denied a clear goalscoring opportunity, and therefore a red card. An intention to cheat doesn't come into it.

Extract from law 12 :
handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own
penalty area)
Therefore the ball must be handled deliberately
Sticking your arm out with the intention of making yourself a bigger target is deliberate

I find it interesting that many commentators can be heard saying 'its not a foul he didn't intend to do it' when the only offence that has to be deliberate is handball, which they then ignore by saying 'it hit his hand so he had to go'. Cliches, I know but it is amazing how few ex-footballers seem to understand the laws whilst saying that ex-footballers would make good referees

[Platypuss]

Indeed, handball in football is increasingly more like "football" in hockey - an offence even if accidental and there is perceived to be an advantage gained.

[Snowball]

Oh yeah Feds pushed one shot into the path of a Donny striker
when he either should catch it or push it round...

So "only" a 9

The Donny striker was offside, so your criticism is unfounded.

The guy who ballooned it was O/S but the original shooter wasn't

[Franchise FC]

The Donny striker was offside, so your criticism is unfounded.

The guy who ballooned it was O/S but the original shooter wasn't

But, unless my memory is failing me, Fed saved the first shot - so job done.

[Ian Royal]

Indeed, handball in football is increasingly more like "football" in hockey - an offence even if accidental and there is perceived to be an advantage gained.

Personally I think football should opperate on the Irish law system (courtesy of Dara O'Briain) something like
"That's grand"
"That's enough of that"
"Now you're taking the piss"

So for this situation.
Ball hits arm = penalty.
Player hits ball with arm (not necessarily requiring arm to ball motion) to deliberately gain advantage by stopping a goal = penalty and red card (outside box without stopping a clear goal fk and yellow)
Player deliberately kicks ball against other players arm = indirect freekick to attacker and a warning to the attacker that he's taking the piss and will get a yellow for unsporting behaviour if he isn't careful.

Same with fouls, if a player is accidentally impeded, he's still impeded, but there is no card needed.

[Royal_Delight]

Indeed, handball in football is increasingly more like "football" in hockey - an offence even if accidental and there is perceived to be an advantage gained.

Personally I think football should opperate on the Irish law system (courtesy of Dara O'Briain) something like
"That's grand"
"That's enough of that"
"Now you're taking the piss"

So for this situation.
Ball hits arm = penalty.
Player hits ball with arm (not necessarily requiring arm to ball motion) to deliberately gain advantage by stopping a goal = penalty and red card (outside box without stopping a clear goal fk and yellow)
Player deliberately kicks ball against other players arm = indirect freekick to attacker and a warning to the attacker that he's taking the piss and will get a yellow for unsporting behaviour if he isn't careful.

Same with fouls, if a player is accidentally impeded, he's still impeded, but there is no card needed.

greed

[PEARCEY]

Good header of the ball and showed good composure three or four times today, notably his excellent, well-saved shot, cool tee-up for Howard (a shade underhit, maybe), and patient set-up for Karacan to blast over. Like the team as a whole, maybe the confidence is coming back. One thing you can say about Shane is he has always scored for us at a decent rate. Something Snowball is surely right about.

I did a thread a year or so ago about Long's goal-scoring record. It is very decent indeed. I hope he now has a good run in the side and keeps putting the ball in the back of the net.