Appreciation for Jem Karacan

[Vision]

If he could shoot straight then we'd be where Swansea are now.

[urz13]

I think many are forgetting what a good player he is. He's just as good as Williams at the closing down and winning the ball back IMO, plus he's a better passer and has a far greater goalscoring threat (scored 4 or 5 before his injury last season, already scored this season)

[Extended-Phenotype]

oxf*rd me EP, you really are a bundle of fun just of late.

"player returns from long term injury and did alright"....would've sufficed

I just think Jem's ability seems to have inflated during his absence. Probably because we've been watching the likes of Akpan and idealising Karacans return. He's alright, I just don't remember anyone being that excited about him as a player before his injury.

Just don't think his return will coincide with a big change in results for us.

[Royal Ginger]

Agreed, his great season was largely due to an excellent partnership with Legs and being able to trust Gorkss and Pearce behind them.

Decent footballer, nice chap, not sure he's a world beater.

[Forbury Lion]

Considering hiw little football he has played this season, I thought he had a great game. A couple of missed passes, but on the whole he was one of the better players today. I would gladly see him start the next couple of games, including Wembley, especially if Williams isn't fit.

Going forwawrd, I think it would be a travesty if the club do not offer him a contract. Based on previous seasons and his work on and off the pitch, the club need to keep him. He is a credit to RFC and a credit to football in general.

A contract offer could be based around appearances and a full medical if there are fitness doubts, If the player believes his injuries are behind him and the manager says he is in his first team plans then it might work for all parties.

Remember Murty - Used to be known as sicknote as he was always out injured during his first season or so at the club, How much of a mistake would it have been to release him and maybe keep someone like Andy Gurney on instead?

[RG30]

Sentimentally you would hope he's offered a new deal with him being an academy graduate, club captain etc but given his injury record, his existing contract (assuming he's on a decent Premier League wage) and FFP then it doesn't make great business sense. And of course Clarke may or may not rate him. Difficult decision.

[Snowball]

He's a very solid top-end Championship midfielder at worst,
can actually play but was given the destroyer job for a few seasons.

He's a team man, brave as they come, will run through a brick wall for the club.

He gets goals.

IMO he's exactly what the club needs, if fit.

[Forbury Lion]

He's a very solid top-end Championship midfielder at worst,
can actually play but was given the destroyer job for a few seasons.

He's a team man, brave as they come, will run through a brick wall for the club.

He gets goals.

IMO he's exactly what the club needs, if fit.

+ He was part of our last Championship winning side in midfield with Mikel Leigerwood

[biff]

He's the closest we've got to a Mr RFC, someone who understands the club ethos and would run through brick walls to sustain it. Id rather have him on decent wages than any of our other CMs.

[UpThePrem]

oxf*rd me EP, you really are a bundle of fun just of late.

"player returns from long term injury and did alright"....would've sufficed

I just think Jem's ability seems to have inflated during his absence. Probably because we've been watching the likes of Akpan and idealising Karacans return. He's alright, I just don't remember anyone being that excited about him as a player before his injury.

Just don't think his return will coincide with a big change in results for us.

I find myself actually agreeing with EP.

Works hard, closes down well but not really sure there's much of an end product. Would prefer Williams ahead of him. Would also like to see him challenge Gunter for a place. One of his best games was away at Millwall in the promotion year when he covered right back. More attacking threat that day than i've seen from him in any other games.

[biff]

87% pass completion rate and a screamer in his first 2 games back from 18 months out = an end product. Williams flatters to deceive.

[Snowball]

He's the closest we've got to a Mr RFC, someone who understands the club ethos and would run through brick walls to sustain it. Id rather have him on decent wages than any of our other CMs.

+1,000

[Snowball]

I find myself actually agreeing with EP.

Works hard, closes down well but not really sure there's much of an end product. Would prefer Williams ahead of him. Would also like to see him challenge Gunter for a place. One of his best games was away at Millwall in the promotion year when he covered right back. More attacking threat that day than i've seen from him in any other games.

This is why I like to refer to actual data as opposed to subjective opinion

What has Williams actually produced? 4 Goals and 2 assists in 59 appearances (4,494 Minutes)

That's a goal every 1,124 minutes, an assist every 2,247 Minutes.

Combined that's a Goal/Assist every 750 Minutes, once every 9.33 90-minute games

Caravan produces significantly more end-product
On goals/assists combined he SLAUGHTERS Williams

059 Appearances 04 Goals 02 Assists in 04,494 Minutes Williams
169 Appearances 12 Goals 15 Assists in 12,930 Minutes Karacan <<<<<<<<<

A goal every 1,124 Minutes Williams
A goal every 1,078 Minutes Karacan <<<<<<<<<

An assist every 2,247 Minutes Williams
An assist every 0,862 Minutes Karacan <<<<<<<<<<<

A Goal-or-Assist every 750 Minutes Williams
A Goal-or-Assist every 479 Minutes Karacan <<<<<<<<

Note, too, that 21 of Karacan's appearances (1,595 Minutes) were Premiership
whereas all Williams' appearances for RFC have been at Championship level

[Snowball]

Would also like to see (Karacan) challenge Gunter for a place. One of his best games was away at Millwall in the promotion year when he covered right back. More attacking threat that day than i've seen from him in any other games.

I have always thought Jem would make an outstanding full back
and have said so on here more than a few times

[Nameless]

He's the closest we've got to a Mr RFC, someone who understands the club ethos and would run through brick walls to sustain it. Id rather have him on decent wages than any of our other CMs.

+1,000

Pearce fits the bill just as well to be honest.....

[Ian Royal]

oxf*rd me EP, you really are a bundle of fun just of late.

"player returns from long term injury and did alright"....would've sufficed

I just think Jem's ability seems to have inflated during his absence. Probably because we've been watching the likes of Akpan and idealising Karacans return. He's alright, I just don't remember anyone being that excited about him as a player before his injury.

Just don't think his return will coincide with a big change in results for us.

I find myself actually agreeing with EP.

Works hard, closes down well but not really sure there's much of an end product. Would prefer Williams ahead of him. Would also like to see him challenge Gunter for a place. One of his best games was away at Millwall in the promotion year when he covered right back. More attacking threat that day than i've seen from him in any other games.

I thought the same, but in his very brief appearances under Adkins he showed he's actually capable of passing well, when not being asked to chase his tail and hoof at every opportunity. He's been one of our most accurate passers in his very short amount of pitch time since we got relegated.

The question is whether that will be replicated under Clarke or he'll go backwards. I think he'll be fine there. I still think he'd be the answer to all our RB problems though. Decent pace, can tackle, can pass, can cross and he's not a gutless bottle job. Positioning might be questionable for a while though.

[Extended-Phenotype]

I find myself actually agreeing with EP.

Works hard, closes down well but not really sure there's much of an end product. Would prefer Williams ahead of him. Would also like to see him challenge Gunter for a place. One of his best games was away at Millwall in the promotion year when he covered right back. More attacking threat that day than i've seen from him in any other games.

This is why I like to refer to actual data as opposed to subjective opinion

What has Williams actually produced? 4 Goals and 2 assists in 59 appearances (4,494 Minutes)

That's a goal every 1,124 minutes, an assist every 2,247 Minutes.

Combined that's a Goal/Assist every 750 Minutes, once every 9.33 90-minute games

Caravan produces significantly more end-product
On goals/assists combined he SLAUGHTERS Williams

059 Appearances 04 Goals 02 Assists in 04,494 Minutes Williams
169 Appearances 12 Goals 15 Assists in 12,930 Minutes Karacan <<<<<<<<<

A goal every 1,124 Minutes Williams
A goal every 1,078 Minutes Karacan <<<<<<<<<

An assist every 2,247 Minutes Williams
An assist every 0,862 Minutes Karacan <<<<<<<<<<<

A Goal-or-Assist every 750 Minutes Williams
A Goal-or-Assist every 479 Minutes Karacan <<<<<<<<

Note, too, that 21 of Karacan's appearances (1,595 Minutes) were Premiership
whereas all Williams' appearances for RFC have been at Championship level

At risk of going over old ground, there is more to football than goal & assist stats which do not tell the whole story.

Tbf to either of them, goals and assists aren't really particularly important to the role we have them play, though I appreciate you are arguing about end product here.

Personally, I'd be looking for cms who break up the play and have a bit of creativity in terms of kickstarting attacks on goal, carving out plays which lead to chances and giving the team variety and inventiveness. Difficult to measure that statistically.

But in terms of Jem, by my eye (which I'm happy to admit is subjective) he's great at breaking up the play but I've rarely felt he's ticked any of the other boxes. Not enough to make him special, anyway.

[Snowball]

Personally, I'd be looking for cms who break up the play and have a bit of creativity in terms of kickstarting attacks on goal, carving out plays which lead to chances and giving the team variety and inventiveness. Difficult to measure that statistically.

But in terms of Jem, by my eye (which I'm happy to admit is subjective) he's great at breaking up the play but I've rarely felt he's ticked any of the other boxes. Not enough to make him special, anyway.

Well, point 1, he's been asked to be a destroyer for a few seasons now and that has hidden
his otherwise excellent ball-skills.

But (subjective opinion now) he wins more ball than Williams, and plays a cleverer team-game.

Problem with Williams (other than the fact I think he MIGHT BE a disruptive influence) is that he likes to run with the
ball but often to no great effect (rather than make the clever pass.)

[Snowball]

As already shown, on overall RFC stats, not just this year,
Karacan appears far more useful than Williams.

Subjectively, I see Williams as very dynamic and “exciting”
but often just dribbling into trouble. I can’t remember a dribble
that resulted in a goal, altho’ I’m sure there have been some.

Jem has played very little this season and in his most recent start he
was allowed to play a little more (ie less of an out-and-out destroyer)

I appreciate that he hasn’t played enough minutes (this season)
for comparison, but using all seasons he comes out ahead of
Williams, and so far, on these limited minutes, he is holding his
own, so (so far) it looks as though he has lost nothing.

THIS SEASON

(Aware that Jem has had just 3 appearances)


Near Equality

Williams 6.63 - 6.62 Rating (WhoScored)

Williams 87.8 - 86.3 Karacan Pass % Success

Williams 0.0 - 0.0 Karacan Assists (NOTE Karacan has a far better assist record overall)

Williams 1.5 - 1.5 Karacan Tackles


Karacan Better

Williams 01 - 01 Karacan Goals (NOTE Karacan has the better goals-per-minute record overall)

Williams 1,753 - 0,135 Karacan Minutes per Goal (NOTE Karacan has the better goals-per-minute record overall)

Williams 0.5 - 0.3 Karacan Fouls

Williams 0.2 - 0.5 Karacan Blocks

Williams 0.9 - 0.5 Karacan Times Dispossessed Per Game

Williams 0.7 - 0.3 Karacan Bad Control


Williams Better

Williams 1.2 - 0.5 Karacan Shots per Game ???

Williams 0.9 - 0.8 Karacan Interceptions

Williams 0.6 - 0.5 Karacan Clearances

Williams 0.5 - 0.0 Karacan Dribbles ???

Williams 0.9 - 0.5 Karacan Aerial Duels Won


Note

Williams Dribbles/Shots, while shown as “better”
these stats are misleading as the dribbles and/or
shots are not resulting in goals or assists.


Williams (1.2 SPG) has had 20 (2) Appearances
so approximately 24 shots and just the one goal

His 10-11 dribbles have not resulted in a goal or assist

IMO that is classic “flattering to deceive”

[Ian Royal]

On the subjective front I'm suspicious of Jem's positioning and teamwork. Not saying he doesn't pull his weight at all, but that he ball chases and that can leave us exposed as he moves out of formation. Also i think he switched off around the edge of our box a bit much, letting runners ghost away from him.

But that's my only gripe with him in midfield.

Maybe his passes could be more purposeful and crisp to drive us forward.