Two Ian Harte assists today....

[Vision]

Seems like Harte now has four assists for the season in 8 (1) games


PS ALF is doing well with four goals and 3 assists in 11 (2)


Compare that to McAnuff, 17 games, no goals, the same 3 assists, or Keb

Calling goals or assists major contributions (I DO know there are other things like tackles etc)


11 (02) 11.33 Games for 7 MC = 4 Goals 3 Assists = 1 in 1.83 Le Fondre

08 (01) 08.17 Games for 4 MC = 0 Goals 4 Assists = 1 in 2.04 Harte

10 (06) 11.00 Games for 4 MC = 3 Goals 1 Assists = 1 in 3.67 Hunt

11 (03) 11.50 Games for 4 MC = 2 Goals 2 Assists = 1 in 3.83 Kebe

17 (00) 17.00 Games for 3 MC = 0 Goals 3 Assists = 1 in 5.67 McAnuff



Surprised how reasonable Jimmy's stats are

I take it goals scored against Bristol City don't count!

[Ian Royal]

Remind me who Kebe's second goal was against... Cardiff & ??

Not very reliable figures snowball.

[Snowball]

Seems like Harte now has four assists for the season in 8 (1) games


PS ALF is doing well with four goals and 3 assists in 11 (2)


Compare that to McAnuff, 17 games, no goals, the same 3 assists, or Keb

Calling goals or assists major contributions (I DO know there are other things like tackles etc)


Apologies. I usually have my own stats but took these from the OS.

McAnuff corrected and Manset added. His figures are very good for his minutes played



05 (10) 06.67 Games for 4 MC = 3 Goals 1 Assists = 1 in 1.67 Manset

11 (02) 11.33 Games for 7 MC = 4 Goals 3 Assists = 1 in 1.83 Le Fondre

08 (01) 08.17 Games for 4 MC = 0 Goals 4 Assists = 1 in 2.04 Harte

10 (06) 11.00 Games for 4 MC = 3 Goals 1 Assists = 1 in 3.67 Hunt

11 (03) 11.50 Games for 4 MC = 2 Goals 2 Assists = 1 in 3.83 Kebe

17 (00) 17.00 Games for 4 MC = 1 Goals 3 Assists = 1 in 4.25 McAnuff







Surprised how reasonable Jimmy's stats are.

[Forbury Lion]

but I don't think he's the long term option.

Maybe play Mills and Harte? One left back and one left midfield... yes, we'll lose a winger but maybe Harte can cross the ball in from deep more effectively than a winger running up to the wing and producing nothing. I'm thinking left sided David Beckham role, can't tackle, no pace but can pass effectively and read the game.

I'm sure Wayne Bridge and Ashley Cole who both played once for England at the same time, whilst Reading once played Gurney and Murty... Gurney was a right back allegedly who was played at right wing, Murty was a right winger at York who was played at Right back when he joined us... well that half of the trading places experiment worked.

Anyway, that's just an idea. One that may only get put into practice if injuries hit the squad.

[floyd__streete]

I think that the absolutely rancid set-pieces we have delivered - many of them by Mills - since Harte was dropped has made me rather soften to Harte's obvious weakness of a total lack of pace. In this rank-ordinary division a lot of goals are scored through set-pieces so with our wingers and centre-mids unable rarely able to create much and with such a bogstandard array of forwards.....we may as well make the nost of Harte's delivery and use the bloke every week tbh.

[melonhead]

mills' over all game, and indeed his set pieces had improved markedly over the last few games.
and was only dropped due to injury
though ill admit i am also coming round to trying to shoehorn hartes extra goals/delivery into the team somehow
mills does have a long while to progress
i hope being left out doesnt set him back too much

[Svlad Cjelli]

The problem is that Mills has shown progress over the past few games, and the only way he's going to get batter ids by playing and gaining more experience and confidence. And at the same time Harte isn't going to last for ever.

These are the sort of decisions managers have to make and there's no way of knowing what are the right ones - do we invest in Mills for the future right now, or use the short-term benefit that Harte gives us now and and maybe be less effective later on?

[melonhead]

the only way he's going to get batter ids by playing and gaining more experience and confidence.

i generally agree- but the above isnt teh whole picture- often players can come back better after being dropped through extra motivation and focus- look at harte himself

[Wycombe Royal]

Surprised how reasonable Jimmy's stats are.

Snowball, any chance you can produce stats showing how well the team is doing with our key attacking players in the team? Dellor keeps banging on about how poor we are doing with Kebe on the pitch so I was wondering if the stats back this up? So for example what is our goal scoring record like with Kebe on the pitch, compared to say HRK, McAnuff or Hunt?

[Extended-Phenotype]

1. If you play Harte as a DM with one other DM, his pace or stamina would not be an issue. What’s the worst that can happen? Drop the worlds most ineffective midfielder Jem Karacan? Oh no, my eyes are turning into prunes from the flood of tears.

2. If you play Harte as a CB and drop Pearce for example, what is the pace issue here? Last time I watched Reading on TV, I nearly broke my set bashing it when the cameras were on Pearce; I thought the picture had frozen.

3. Stick him on the left wing as a deep/defensive wide-man, in a Beckham-esque role, and his pace can easily be covered by the leftback; Harte’s defensive experience may even help Mills out, too – f//k knows he needs it.


I think Harte has a big asset which the team really need to work out a way in which to play him and utilise it. In a team of ‘nothing specials’, it seems a shame to have a chap with a stand-out quality not making the team because the manager can’t think outside Fisher Price My First 4-4-2 Football Tactics and Colouring-in Book 1987.

He’s more effective than Mills, he scores and creates more goals than Karacan, and he gives more of a sh/t than Jimmy Kebe. Give me three Ian Hartes and I’d replace the lot of ‘em. And if you disagree, well you are probably a paedophile or something.

[Extended-Phenotype]

1. If you play Harte as a DM with one other DM, his pace or stamina would not be an issue. What’s the worst that can happen? Drop the worlds most ineffective midfielder Jem Karacan? Oh no, my eyes are turning into prunes from the flood of tears.

2. If you play Harte as a CB and drop Pearce for example, what is the pace issue here? Last time I watched Reading on TV, I nearly broke my set bashing it when the cameras were on Pearce; I thought the picture had frozen.

3. Stick him on the left wing as a deep/defensive wide-man, in a Beckham-esque role, and his pace can easily be covered by the leftback; Harte’s defensive experience may even help Mills out, too. F//k Kebe - at least Harte will be trying to run faster 6mph.


I think Harte has a big asset which the team really need to work out a way in which to play him and utilise it. In a team of ‘nothing specials’, it seems a shame to have a chap with a stand-out quality not making the team because the manager can’t think outside Fisher Price My First 4-4-2 Football Tactics and Colouring-in Book 1987.

He’s more effective than Mills, he scores and creates more goals than Karacan, and he gives more of a sh/t than Jimmy Kebe. Give me three Ian Hartes and I’d replace the lot of ‘em. And if you disagree, well you are probably a paedophile or something.

[melonhead]

Surprised how reasonable Jimmy's stats are.

Snowball, any chance you can produce stats showing how well the team is doing with our key attacking players in the team? Dellor keeps banging on about how poor we are doing with Kebe on the pitch so I was wondering if the stats back this up? So for example what is our goal scoring record like with Kebe on the pitch, compared to say HRK, McAnuff or Hunt?

the stats showed that whenever kebe plays this season, we do not win
but im imagining that is no longer the case

[melonhead]

1. If you play Harte as a DM with one other DM, his pace or stamina would not be an issue. What’s the worst that can happen? Drop the worlds most ineffective midfielder Jem Karacan? Oh no, my eyes are turning into prunes from the flood of tears.

2. If you play Harte as a CB and drop Pearce for example, what is the pace issue here? Last time I watched Reading on TV, I nearly broke my set bashing it when the cameras were on Pearce; I thought the picture had frozen.

3. Stick him on the left wing as a deep/defensive wide-man, in a Beckham-esque role, and his pace can easily be covered by the leftback; Harte’s defensive experience may even help Mills out, too – f//k knows he needs it.


.

1. the middle two works because jem and ledge have th elegs to run, and cover and press all day
harte does not

2.no pace issue, but pearce has been great this season, and is forming a great partnership with gorkss, - also as slow as pearce is, he is often asked to come out and cover the even slower harte at full back whenever he plays- (incidentally resulting in one of ipswiches goals on saturday)


3. pace is pretty important as a wide man- hence why beckham could no longer play out there regularly for any of his teams since he left man utd.


i quite like him as 3rd CB with the two full backs pushed on, or as the third most defensive CM in a 4-3-3

[Extended-Phenotype]

Ideal:

Players can adapt to different roles, and roles can be flexible to accommodate players – real life is a bit more compliant than Kick Off 2 on the ZX Spectrum.

To start with, Ian Harte has got good awareness and positioning, so I’m not sure what your beef is there. Lacking the pace to catch a winger does not qualify as sh/t positioning skills. It just means his range is lacking. Abridge that to the width of the pitch as apposed to the length, and you’ve given him a more comfortable playing area. Outside of being beaten for pace, I think he’s shown excellent positioning and understanding in games.

Stamina-wise, I’m not that confident you are right to knock him here, either – although as stated, if he’s teamed up with another DM, you can customise his workrate. Plenty of DM’s are old fellas, slower with short ranges. How about Ivan Campo, or Claude Makalele? Don’t just read the instructions to Nintendo Fighting Soccer and think that’s all there is to the role.


Look, he is in no way perfect for the role, but the positives should inspire solutions being found for the negatives. If we can find a position that reduces his liability while benefiting the team with his delivery, I think that’d be a big bonus for the team.

Jem Karacan works really hard at what? Grinding out loses and draws with all this Pace, Stamina, Bravery, Magic and Horse-Riding Ability?

[Extended-Phenotype]

Catlemon:

1. Well it doesn’t work, does it? We just have this tepid midfield whose work amounts to p1ss all. Sit Harte as the deepest, stick Legs infront of him and bung a third midfielder in behind a lone striker and surely you’d have enough players in midfield to accommodate someone who is shorter on stamina and pace.

2. In order for Pearce to have been “great”, you would need to eat a field of Psilocybe cubensis to form the stretch of imagination required to accommodate such an assessment.

3. Beckham was a snail in the Prem, but still went on to be a first choice regular for Real, AC Milan and England. Not saying he was perfect, but we are talking about top tier football here; the idea can’t have been that pony.


I don’t trust 3 CB’s. You get totally screwed over by anybody with an ounce of tactical nous. But 4-3-3 is basically what I was arguing for.

[Snowball]

Pheno is right.

It won't happen (at least it's HIGHLY unlikely) but a midfield of Elwood-Karacn-Harte
would, IMO, be EXCELLENT.

It would be the job of Elwood and Karacan to EITHER feed it wide OR give it to Harte as play-maker.

Elwood and Karacan would bring the speed and energy, Harte would bring the extra "nous" the ability
to pick a pass, the extra football intelligence... all this exclusive of his ability in dead ball situations.

Can you remember Harte being caught in possession? He is very composed with the ball.



IMO we miss having a midfield general. Giles for Leeds. Bremner did the work and fed Giles.

Len Hill did the MG work for Newport County. He was slowwwww. Others did the work,
won the ball, fed Len.

[Snowball]

1. If you play Harte as a DM with one other DM, his pace or stamina would not be an issue. What’s the worst that can happen? Drop the worlds most ineffective midfielder Jem Karacan? Oh no, my eyes are turning into prunes from the flood of tears.

2. If you play Harte as a CB and drop Pearce for example, what is the pace issue here? Last time I watched Reading on TV, I nearly broke my set bashing it when the cameras were on Pearce; I thought the picture had frozen.

3. Stick him on the left wing as a deep/defensive wide-man, in a Beckham-esque role, and his pace can easily be covered by the leftback; Harte’s defensive experience may even help Mills out, too – f//k knows he needs it.


.

1. the middle two works because jem and ledge have th elegs to run, and cover and press all day
harte does not

They would still do that work, and Harte would make the ball work...

2.no pace issue, but pearce has been great this season, and is forming a great partnership with gorkss, - also as slow as pearce is, he is often asked to come out and cover the even slower harte at full back whenever he plays- (incidentally resulting in one of ipswiches goals on saturday)

i first thought that but look again. Harte was going with the wide man (his job)
and the ball was played between him and the CB

[Hoop Blah]

I suggested a few weeks ago that perhaps the easiest place to hide Harte in the side would be as a sweeper infront of the back four and I still think that would be possible BUT, the problem we have is that we don't have the forwards who are capable or used to playing in a system to fit him in in that way.

I'm not sure Harte would cope too well in there either but it is the place you can get away with doing the least running if you know what you're doing (which he probably doesn't but could potentially pick up). You need to read the game well, which he does, and you need to be able to use the ball well. You also need to be quite dynamic and mobile, which he isn't, to cover the gaps that the fullbacks and other midfielders pushing on (which they need to do) create.

I don't think it's something we should try though. Better to fix a problem with a proper solution than go down the Reading route of 'make do' and put round pegs in square holes.

[Ian Royal]

Surprised how reasonable Jimmy's stats are.

Snowball, any chance you can produce stats showing how well the team is doing with our key attacking players in the team? Dellor keeps banging on about how poor we are doing with Kebe on the pitch so I was wondering if the stats back this up? So for example what is our goal scoring record like with Kebe on the pitch, compared to say HRK, McAnuff or Hunt?

I've got that... hold up....

Based on my own records and methodology which might give slightly different results to OS stats. I've done my best not to credit a player with events that have happened before they've come on or after they've gone off. But I'm not infallible. And yes, this is SAD.

Starts / subs / minutes on pitch / points per game / For per game / minutes per assist+ goal
Kebe
11 / 2 / 977 / 0.85 / 0.92 / 488.50
McAnuff
17 / 0 / 1483 / 1.24 / 1.03 / 494.33
HRK
8 / 9 / 877 / 1.29 / 1.54 / 438.50
Hunt
10 / 6 / 977 / 1.50 / 1.29 / 244.25
Le Fondre
11 / 2 / 1057 / 1.54 / 1.28 / 151
Church
10 / 4 / 846 / 0.86 / 0.64 / 423
Manset
4 / 10 / 485 / 1.07 / 1.30 / 161.67

Doesn't look good for Church, does it. And reflects Dellor's point about Kebe. Le Fondre & Hunt upfront with Manset coming off the bench seems sensible upfront.

[Extended-Phenotype]

So you are basicly saying that through the magic of imagination, anyone can do anything

Yup. First I ludicrously suggest playing a defender as a defensive midfielder, next I want to play an owl in goal and have Noel Hunt ride into the game on the back of a f//ing Unicorn.

I put it to you that this is completely unrealistic

I put it to you? Who are you, Benjamin f//king Cardozo? Look, Harte can pass, he can tackle and he has a decent understanding of positioning. You talk as if the role I’m asking him to play is Mrs Ideal on your f/cking birthday. It’s not that far removed.

the other teams would just steam right through our midfield and pound in the goals over and over.

Yeah. A slower DM results in the spontaneous combustion of the goal keeper, back four, and all the other midfielders around him. Don’t forget the stadium would also burn to the ground, and Jimmy Kebe would get AIDS.

These two players have simply nothing in common with Ian Harte. Your examples do nothing but contradict your argument blah blah moan gripe bitter blah.

Yeah? Well you stink and can’t f//k. So there.