Dodgy agents, dodgy deals, the sorry tale continues

[leon]

You've misunderstood completely. I was defending you and comparing leon to OMA.

Some random has a go at me I’m entitled to ask them who they are. I don’t permission from you.

I don’t need your permission to tell you I think you're being a prick either.

Glad we've sorted that out.

Say what you want Ian. Just please don't start bombarding me with PM's like Franconian Royal has been.

[Snowflake Royal]

Some random has a go at me I’m entitled to ask them who they are. I don’t permission from you.

I don’t need your permission to tell you I think you're being a prick either.

Glad we've sorted that out.

Say what you want Ian. Just please don't start bombarding me with PM's like Franconian Royal has been.

I got one too, you can be sure I won't waste your time with moany pms. He went off on one having completely got the wrong end of the stick.

[Pepe the Horseman]

I don’t need your permission to tell you I think you're being a prick either.

Glad we've sorted that out.

Say what you want Ian. Just please don't start bombarding me with PM's like Franconian Royal has been.

I got one too, you can be sure I won't waste your time with moany pms. He went off on one having completely got the wrong end of the stick.

There was another poster that usedd to ddo things like that. Whatever happenedd to him?

[Franconian Royal]

I don’t need your permission to tell you I think you're being a prick either.

Glad we've sorted that out.

Say what you want Ian. Just please don't start bombarding me with PM's like Franconian Royal has been.

I got one too, you can be sure I won't waste your time with moany pms. He went off on one having completely got the wrong end of the stick.

What's the right end of the stick then chaps / chappess? Let's be hearing it. The only thing I read from you lot is negativity.

[RoyalBlue]

I read the article but not all the post.

Lets remember a key fact of all this: The various owners of Reading FC have lost tens, if not hundreds of millions of pounds in the previous 10 years. Regardless of all the accusations about this and that - no one can argue that they have benefited from this process. The losses are just too huge, even if (IF) they were being paid back-handers for allowing things to happen, there is no way it would make up for what they are losing. So, it's highly unlikely that this is all some huge criminal conspiracy - it's not like they performed a leverage buyout and then asset stripped the club. They have spent their own money on everything.

So, the other likelihood is that the owners have been exploited by the various individuals and companies listed in the article - some of whom may have helped the club with transfers and FFP situations in order to financially benefit themselves. But then others may argue that the club has simply had to get it's hands dirty to stay ahead of the rampant shady practices that are reported to be taking place in English football on a daily basis.

The claims about the manager role are probably the worse - that we deliberately brought in unsuitable candidates purely because they could be manipulated by those involved. But then you have to ask why the owners would do this - are they really so naive that they were willing to trade in decent management for access to the player markets and contacts that the 'agents' could offer?

They could well be footballing naive and easily swayed by an advisor who appears to demonstrate great knowledge of the game, players and the market. In the most recent instance, I could see someone like that falling for the big name candidate 'Paul Ince'.

[leon]

Hey Ian - he's having a pop at both of us now.

[Franconian Royal]

Hey Ian - he's having a pop at both of us now.

He's got a name and he's here. Not having a pop, sunshine. I just wish you'd stop being so negative.

[Franconian Royal]

Doesn’t matter who he is leon. That's the response of the condescending and desperate. I think OMA uses it quite a lot, which tells you all you need to know about it.

I’m not OMA. And I’m nothing like OMA

You've misunderstood completely. I was defending you and comparing leon to OMA.

Apology accepted Ian

[Coppells Lost Coat]

They could well be footballing naive and easily swayed by an advisor who appears to demonstrate great knowledge of the game, players and the market. In the most recent instance, I could see someone like that falling for the big name candidate 'Paul Ince'.

I would say they have entrusted the football dealing with someone who controls a lot of players and has a big say in the where abouts of said players.
This would be off putting to a lot of people dealing with us and thus Kia looks at Kias players for all the solutions. Its a weird vacuum.

[Snowflake Royal]

I’m not OMA. And I’m nothing like OMA

You've misunderstood completely. I was defending you and comparing leon to OMA.

Apology accepted Ian

I've got nothing to apologise for. I'd have thought you might want to for having a go at me for no reason, but doesn't bother me either way. I've got thick skin.

[Snowflake Royal]

Hey Ian - he's having a pop at both of us now.

Frankie is a miracle worker, he's brought us together. <3

[Franconian Royal]

Hey Ian - he's having a pop at both of us now.

Frankie is a miracle worker, he's brought us together. <3

You're welcome you 2.

[Mr Angry]

The money laundering comes from multiple transfers of a player/players between clubs owned or part owned by the same owners using the same agent; a "€5M" transfer fee between clubs is agreed and goes on the books, but there is no physical exchange of that money, so when the same player is sold a 2nd time for €5M to a different club, the funds generated are "clean".

As for the owners making "losses", losses for football clubs owned by foreign owners are, of course, off set against the owners tax liabilities, so making a loss isn't a problem for these people, especially if they are non-domiciled (where tax rules are different).

Football is NOT a normal business and I agree with Dirk, it is ripe for exploitation and corruption and needs to be cleaned up.

Sadly though, it won't be, as there are far too many people, many of them very wealthy and influential, who are very happy with how things are thank you very much, and won't want the boat rocked.

And as for the comment that it only bothers us because we are losing; that really is a very narrow minded and cynical view of life IMHO. It may be true for some fans, but for others I am sure they are genuinely appalled by the way the game has been exploited and has become so corrupt.

[Snowflake Royal]

The money laundering comes from multiple transfers of a player/players between clubs owned or part owned by the same owners using the same agent; a "€5M" transfer fee between clubs is agreed and goes on the books, but there is no physical exchange of that money, so when the same player is sold a 2nd time for €5M to a different club, the funds generated are "clean".

As for the owners making "losses", losses for football clubs owned by foreign owners are, of course, off set against the owners tax liabilities, so making a loss isn't a problem for these people, especially if they are non-domiciled (where tax rules are different).

Football is NOT a normal business and I agree with Dirk, it is ripe for exploitation and corruption and needs to be cleaned up.

Sadly though, it won't be, as there are far too many people, many of them very wealthy and influential, who are very happy with how things are thank you very much, and won't want the boat rocked.

And as for the comment that it only bothers us because we are losing; that really is a very narrow minded and cynical view of life IMHO. It may be true for some fans, but for others I am sure they are genuinely appalled by the way the game has been exploited and has become so corrupt.

Amen.

Change will only be driven Gov led regulation, because the PL and FL are dominated by their members who are run by these people.

No chance of that happening under the lazy oxf*rd in No. 10 or his small state puppet master Barclay. Not least because half the dodgy money probably comes from Tory donors or their mates.

[Dirk Gently]

How does money laundering work with a football club? I understand how you can asset strip (Thais) , but shelling out millions to run a club or buy players doesn't seem to be a good way to legitimise dodgy cash. Money laundering needs to inflate income not losses.

When you're money laundering you have to take a big loss (on paper) to make money clean, because dirty money is effectively worthless no matter what its nominal worth is.

Not sure exactly what the acceptable ratio is, but I know it's at least a 75% loss - so if you can bring £100 of dirty money and turn it into £25 or more of clean and usable money that's a good result.

Still not getting it.

Paying players, agents and others loads of (dirty) money doesn't help you clean any money.

You'd need to pay yourself to gain from losses. Or at least pay for a fictitious loss for yourself that isn't real. eg some charge to bring in the money. Or get them to pay back some of the money.

Yes, you're paying yourself as agents and employees, you're paying players and other third-parties who you have an arrangement with, you're converting dirty money into hard assets (not that there are any left at RFC) - and you're using tax loopholes to offset your paper losses into solid credits on the balance sheet of other companies elsewhere in your empires.

Accounting practices are so lax in football - and the simple truth is that the EPL doesn't have the cash or resources to do the sort of forensic accountancy that the PL does. When you're up against the likes of Mr.t Samuelson and his multiple-nested offshore tax havens that stuff is expensive and time-comsuming, if it's possible. The PL use some shady characters to do investigations of hidden funds etc to try to protect their "brand" - the EPL, which is basically about 20 people in an office in Preston, would love to but can't even contemplate
it.

[The Green Programme]

This forum is becoming more like one of those conspiracy theory sites……

Business is business…

Billionaires move in circles we know nothing about.

Media outlets produce nothing more than rumours and opinions usually created by marketing and PR departments of vested interests of one kind or another.

Pauno left with a classy message but had to go; he was given a lot of time to turn it round and failed.

If you want to look at dodgy goings on and rule bending; look at City and Chelsea… they’re excellent examples on how to do it successfully!!

Our owners have made mistakes; every owner we’ve ever had has made mistakes.

And hindsight (when in judgement rather than balanced feedback) is generally tiresome.

We now have an exciting interim manager appointed and owners that have resources which, I hope will be used more wisely going forward.

They have made a decision and acted. Let’s now be thankful.

Let’s look forward and get excited about the Birmingham game.

You’re an idiot.

Wow….

You must be f@?king Einstein mate.

Is that how you respond to people who disagree with you?

Call them names?

It can only mean that your either a genius or someone who never learns anything from anyone……..

Good luck with that.

[leon]

This forum is becoming more like one of those conspiracy theory sites……

Business is business…

Billionaires move in circles we know nothing about.

Media outlets produce nothing more than rumours and opinions usually created by marketing and PR departments of vested interests of one kind or another.

Pauno left with a classy message but had to go; he was given a lot of time to turn it round and failed.

If you want to look at dodgy goings on and rule bending; look at City and Chelsea… they’re excellent examples on how to do it successfully!!

Our owners have made mistakes; every owner we’ve ever had has made mistakes.

And hindsight (when in judgement rather than balanced feedback) is generally tiresome.

We now have an exciting interim manager appointed and owners that have resources which, I hope will be used more wisely going forward.

They have made a decision and acted. Let’s now be thankful.

Let’s look forward and get excited about the Birmingham game.

You’re an idiot.

Wow….

You must be f@?king Einstein mate.

Is that how you respond to people who disagree with you?

Call them names?

It can only mean that your either a genius or someone who never learns anything from anyone……..

Good luck with that.

Whatever. I really have lost interest.

[The Green Programme]

Hi Mr. Yongge

I shall assume that you are a grown up and have developed some kind of intelligent means of communicating as opposed to responding to events like one of the paranoid characters from ‘A Scanner Darkly’.

Who would you like to have seen appointed?

And why?

Or are you just going to come out with the wonderful old Irish saying;

‘Well, if it was me, I just wouldn’t have started from here’

It’s amazing how so many people on this forum and elsewhere, who have no clue about how to run a football club seem to know what they would have done, and what should have been done and cannot understand why our owners didn’t see everything in advance like they can see it in hindsight….

Etc etc…

I have always liked Paul Ince and I am glad that we’ve appointed someone who has stature in the football world.

Come on Incey!

The owners knew what they were doing, There was no never a long term plan. The Chinese are renowned for being gamblers. The owners wanted to do better than than their billionaire mates. The number of clubs owned by the Chinese peaked in 2017 and has steadily declined since. Not the game it once was.

Football is not a precise science; it is a winner take all results based sport which turns over vast sums of money.

Football Club owners have always been egotistic and reliant on good people around them.

The owners have ‘kissed a few frogs’ to say the least and made some big mistakes.

But they have also invested millions and have also made some tough decisions recently and I think they are more suited to moving forward.

The bottom line is; if Puscas had been a success; if Aluko had played from the start like he did in his last season with us under Pauno, if Moore would have been the man we thought he was when most fans wanted our owners to keep him (which they did at huge expense)

If Joao had scored the penalties and the sitters he missed last season, in crucial games; we would have been in the play offs last season and who knows; possibly in the Prem now!

That is how tiny the margins are…..

As I mentioned previously ;

Play off final; Villa 2 Derby 1…..

Tiny margins…. and yet look at the differing outcomes for each.

We need to get a grip; see the good in our owners; instead of going on and on about the bad (Chinese are gamblers, seriously!!!I)

It seems to me that even when we can’t find any bad, someone, somewhere digs out some spurious ‘conspiracy type’ stuff.

As if anyone is really interested.

We just have to win games and everything else then takes care of itself.

Football owners are gamblers…

Our owners gambled and failed; so did Derby’s; so did Forest’s, and Pompey’s and Sheff Weds and so on…..

Villa got away with it by the skin of their teeth, as did Wolves before them and Bournemouth are going for it now…

Massive risk taking; winner take all.

We start winning and no-one gives a shit about anything else.

[The Green Programme]

You’re an idiot.

Wow….

You must be f@?king Einstein mate.

Is that how you respond to people who disagree with you?

Call them names?

It can only mean that your either a genius or someone who never learns anything from anyone……..

Good luck with that.

Whatever. I really have lost interest.

So you have problems concentrating as well as needlessly throwing insults around.

You’re clearly not having a good time right now.

Football is a passionate game; I understand that you might get frustrated; particularly if you can’t get your point across very well and have to resort to calling people names.

I hope your week improves. Starting tomorrow evening!

[leon]

Wow….

You must be f@?king Einstein mate.

Is that how you respond to people who disagree with you?

Call them names?

It can only mean that your either a genius or someone who never learns anything from anyone……..

Good luck with that.

Whatever. I really have lost interest.

So you have problems concentrating as well as needlessly throwing insults around.

You’re clearly not having a good time right now.

Football is a passionate game; I understand that you might get frustrated; particularly if you can’t get your point across very well and have to resort to calling people names.

I hope your week improves. Starting tomorrow evening!

Making a few assumptions there. All entirely erroneous obviously but you crack on inventing all sorts of nonsense.