Tax doesn't need to be taxing.....

[Nameless]

We pretty much are our other creditors though....

The debt at RFC Has for years been to the owner, as it still is.

[Ian Royal]

As someone who hasn't really kept up with the finances side, except understanding we are in the shit, can someone bullet point the current situation for me?

£26m wages in 11/12 making about £12m loss
£46m wages in 12/13 making about £2m loss
£??m wages in 13/14 - almost certainly at least £23m, if not £30m+ so expect another substantial loss even with parachute payments.
Rumours we took out a loan in advance of the first / all the parachute payments from Vibrac
Shortly to owe tax man £3.2m from two tax payments that have / will be missed.
SJM has no money to spare.
Anton has to all intents and purposes left.

We need to make massive savings on the wage budget.
We can't really afford to make signings.
We're unlikely to shift at least 2 of our best paid players.
We'll probably lose the Category 1 Academy if the new training ground at Bearwood doesn't go through, which we can't afford without a new owner.

We have a slightly dodgy Israeli billionaire interested in buying us, most details about his bid refer to property development on our land.
We have a possibly not that individually rich Indian with a history in sport interested who'll pay the tax bill instantly, and invest heavily but probably wants to change our name to Reading Royals and may be in over his head.
Rumour says Samuelson and Obolensky are demanding that they stay on as paid Directors and their company is retained as a paid consultant for at least 2 years.

Happy?

[AthleticoSpizz]

The funniest thing is - People on here saying Abramovich would walk..........you got your 'rich Russian owner' and he's been and gone in the blink of an eye!

You see, the funniest thing is 11 managers in eleven years (ok I'll give you Butch Wilkins and the return of the special one)...we'll just call it the nine.

Chelsea...eleven years Roman's trainset??? It obviously works for him, his subjects and "you" the fans.

Since Roman Abramovich acquired Chelsea FC in 2003 the club has won 11 trophies:

Europa League 2012/13, Champions League 2011/12, FA Cup 2011/12, FA Cup 2009/10, Premier League 2009/10, FA Cup 2008/09, FA Cup 2006/07, League Cup 2006/07, Premier League 2005/06, League Cup 2005/06, Premier League 2004/05 (it’s actually 13 trophies if you count the two Community Shields in 2004/05 and 2008/09,

Should have stuck with one manager as it obviously doesn't work...

yes dear

[Royal Lady]

To be fair, when TSI took over we were 8th in the Championship.

Now we have just finished 7th with a bad season, we got promoted and spent a season in England's top division and we have a shit hot academy churning out some fantastic talent. Whichever way you look at it, TSI have improved RFC.

So, you've embarrassed yourself there.

If you had a choice of a pretty dire year in the Prem and being relegated or staying in the championship with a viable football club to support - what would you have chosen?

Stop being so dramatic, we still have a viable club to support.

We're on the verge of a takeover, we have some of the cream of young British talent in our ranks and we had the joy of an incredible promotion campaign.

Relax

Dramatic? LOLz - if we hadn't got into the Prem, hadn't spent big money on Pog etc, we'd still be a well run Championship club, instead of one that can't find a buyer, has loads of debt and has been shafted by the owner of TSI.

[Sanguine]

As someone who hasn't really kept up with the finances side, except understanding we are in the shit, can someone bullet point the current situation for me?

£26m wages in 11/12 making about £12m loss
£46m wages in 12/13 making about £2m loss
£??m wages in 13/14 - almost certainly at least £23m, if not £30m+ so expect another substantial loss even with parachute payments.
Rumours we took out a loan in advance of the first / all the parachute payments from Vibrac
Shortly to owe tax man £3.2m from two tax payments that have / will be missed.
SJM has no money to spare.
Anton has to all intents and purposes left.

We need to make massive savings on the wage budget.
We can't really afford to make signings.
We're unlikely to shift at least 2 of our best paid players.
We'll probably lose the Category 1 Academy if the new training ground at Bearwood doesn't go through, which we can't afford without a new owner.

We have a slightly dodgy Israeli billionaire interested in buying us, most details about his bid refer to property development on our land.
We have a possibly not that individually rich Indian with a history in sport interested who'll pay the tax bill instantly, and invest heavily but probably wants to change our name to Reading Royals and may be in over his head.
Rumour says Samuelson and Obolensky are demanding that they stay on as paid Directors and their company is retained as a paid consultant for at least 2 years.

Happy?

Lovely, ta.

We're fcuked.

A few million on some decent players in the Premier League is looking a better 'investment' than that fcuking Cat 1 now.

[Sanguine]

Dramatic? LOLz - if we hadn't got into the Prem, hadn't spent big money on Pog etc, we'd still be a well run Championship club, instead of one that can't find a buyer, has loads of debt and has been shafted by the owner of TSI.

AZ bought us as a club with, at the time, little chance of immediate promotion.

[Royal Biscuitman]

Dramatic? LOLz - if we hadn't got into the Prem, hadn't spent big money on Pog etc, we'd still be a well run Championship club, instead of one that can't find a buyer, has loads of debt and has been shafted by the owner of TSI.

AZ bought us as a club with, at the time, little chance of immediate promotion.

and he's left us as a club with less chance of promotion and no means to pay a tax bill..... However, the Chairman runs the club does he not?

[Green]

A few million on some decent players in the Premier League is looking a better 'investment' than that fcuking Cat 1 now.

+1.

Never understood why people get excited about the cat 1 thing.

[sandman]

Dramatic? LOLz - if we hadn't got into the Prem, hadn't spent big money on Pog etc, we'd still be a well run Championship club, instead of one that can't find a buyer, has loads of debt and has been shafted by the owner of TSI.

AZ bought us as a club with, at the time, little chance of immediate promotion.

Play off finalists the previous year and 5th on 20/1/12 when the statement was made about the new investment. To say we had little chance suggests we were in mid table well adrift when in reality we were around the play off places.

[weybridgewanderer]

what I don't get is I thought tax was paid on profit

since we make a loss, how come we have a tax bill?

[ZacNaloen]

PAYE

[WAZZOCK]

If you had a choice of a pretty dire year in the Prem and being relegated or staying in the championship with a viable football club to support - what would you have chosen?

Stop being so dramatic, we still have a viable club to support.

We're on the verge of a takeover, we have some of the cream of young British talent in our ranks and we had the joy of an incredible promotion campaign.

Relax

Dramatic? LOLz - if we hadn't got into the Prem, hadn't spent big money on Pog etc, we'd still be a well run Championship club, instead of one that can't find a buyer, has loads of debt and has been shafted by the owner of TSI.

You're right, we can't find a potential buyer, we've found two.

I'll bump this in a matter of months and lol at the over reactions.

[winchester_royal]

A few million on some decent players in the Premier League is looking a better 'investment' than that fcuking Cat 1 now.

+1.

Never understood why people get excited about the cat 1 thing.

Developing local young talent and bringing through players with an affinity for RFC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spending £2m on another mercenary that wouldn't have kept us up anyway.

[Royal Lady]

Wazzock - suitable name btw - we don't have any buyers - we have two potential buyers both of whom appear to be getting fed up with this dragging on - thanks, in no small part, to "TSI". It is clear we won't be buying in any players until the ownership is sorted. Personally, reaching the Prem last time was just a poisoned chalice - we spent money we couldn't afford, we were landed in further debt we couldn't afford and look at us now.....so, if I had been given the choice of spending one pretty dire year in the Prem and being in great debt or staying in the prem, still being a well-run club and TSI not being part of it, I would have chosen the latter - which was my original question. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it wasn't difficult to predict that TSI (not to mention Samuelson) were going to bring problems rather than solve any. So, no, I'm not being dramatic - we are in deep shite at the moment and it doesn't look like being solved any time soon.

[Royal Rother]

A few million on some decent players in the Premier League is looking a better 'investment' than that fcuking Cat 1 now.

+1.

Never understood why people get excited about the cat 1 thing.

Developing local young talent and bringing through players with an affinity for RFC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spending £2m on another mercenary that wouldn't have kept us up anyway.

Good grief yes. I find it surprising anyone would consider otherwise.

Far too much short-termism in the modern fan's psyche.

[Ian Royal]

A few million on some decent players in the Premier League is looking a better 'investment' than that fcuking Cat 1 now.

+1.

Never understood why people get excited about the cat 1 thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE7tKGGfi30&list=PLrL0JXoEQr7zCJnO-NMojTU3b2Cixwndj
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHz-J0aOv3Q
http://www.readingfc.co.uk/news/article/jordan-obita-player-of-season-moments-1576152.aspx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAh9mnOUG88
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUwHjl4ltP0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVJbDECdzOM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxiWfhfk5jU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ1RYT2VbeY

I find that a bizarre view when it's the 'few million on some decent players in the Premier League' that put us in this position and it's the quality of young players from our academy that may keep the club going at a decent level now we can't afford signings.

[notloyalenuffroyal]

Time for a stupid question.

Why didn't they pay the tax bill in the first place? I'm pretty sure the club have accountants. I'm pretty sure their job includes calculating tax, so why didn't they work it out and pay the darned thing?

Have the accountants been sacked, because surely they have not done their job or am I a real thicky and it is a lot more complicated than that (more than possible - could certainly never run a business - much easier to work in a job where they sort that tax nonsense out!!!)

Over to you clever people.

From thicky.

[Yellowcoat]

Well thicky have you considered there was not enough cash available to pay? It is real life not a computer game!

[notloyalenuffroyal]

Well thicky have you considered there was not enough cash available to pay? It is real life not a computer game!

Yes, but hence my point.

If I, in real life, have an accountant to monitor spending, savings and investment, and they don't tell me to put money aside to pay Mr Taxman, then in real life I would sack the numpty!!!

Why didn't they look ahead? Who's fault is it? Yes Anton might be a bit of a knob-cheese and have run off on a yacht the size of which would probably pay said tax bill, but he wasn't the pen pusher counting the pennies.

If I am paying wages of between £5000-£30000 a week, let alone lots of other general staff + owning a big old bit of real estate + pocketing lots of receipts for tickets, food and drink etc each week + a merchandise outlet, I am pretty darned sure there might be a large tax bill. I'd probably put a few pennies in a jar aside each week for that one. You could get one of those enormous bottles. Surely someone, somewhere has been more of a thicky than me.

.....or am I missing something.....

[notloyalenuffroyal]

Surely there must be an accountant nobber!!!! or a Run my own business nobber. Help me understand this madness.