60% Down

[ZacNaloen]

Well true. I don't think there's much point in speculating over a random figure Madj has probably plucked out of the air, without knowing what it actually refers to. Receipts says to me gate receipts. But I'm not sure how that could be possible unless we used to make a feck load on corporate stuff that's vanished.

He's specifically said before hospitality has dropped, so that is quite probably what he does mean.

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

How is Nigel Howe still in a job?

[Royal Lady]

Well true. I don't think there's much point in speculating over a random figure Madj has probably plucked out of the air, without knowing what it actually refers to. Receipts says to me gate receipts. But I'm not sure how that could be possible unless we used to make a feck load on corporate stuff that's vanished.

He's specifically said before hospitality has dropped, so that is quite probably what he does mean.

So, hospitality dropping 60% means we don't have any money at all to spend on players? He was very clever then, if he meant hospitality, because instead of using that word, he said "receipts" - which most people would immediately take to mean "gate receipts - etc"

[ZacNaloen]

Hospitality is quite probably included in match day receipts. I see no reason why it wouldn't be.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

I would take it to mean overall income down 60%, but cant see thats what it really is, just a screen to say we have no chs.

[Royal Lady]

I would take it to mean overall income down 60%, but cant see thats what it really is, just a screen to say we have no chs.

Exactly. Whatever chs is!

[zummerset]

I did a few hospitality days in the Prem and last year and it was stuffed in the Prem with home and away suits (all the six or so rooms in the suite). Last year only a third of that capacity was used and noticably quieter.

[Royal Lady]

Maybe we charge too much? And anyway, I'm still a bit miffed that if he meant hospitality was down 60% he should have said that and not "receipts" - which would give the impression of encompassing everything, from match day tickets to STs etc and that's where I got confused.

[Ian Royal]

Maybe we charge too much? And anyway, I'm still a bit miffed that if he meant hospitality was down 60% he should have said that and not "receipts" - which would give the impression of encompassing everything, from match day tickets to STs etc and that's where I got confused.

Well if hospitality was down by two thirds or more, it is conceivable that the whole thing is down 60%. Depending on what slice of the pie hopsitality is. Unlikely and a stretch, but who knows.

[zummerset]

It would be interesting to analyse the take on hospitality as the entry is c£75-95 ish including a barely adequate bottle of wine and a quite nice meal. Booze has to be paid for but this isn't mammoth. Depends if he is including corporate advertising/ boxes as well.

Another thing to remember is that when we were in the Prem we weren't in a recession and expenses and freebies were easier to come by.

Another point is the faux gentility of the events - I would rather have a rugby club atmosphere with good grub, girls, banter and beer than the rather surly ex BA cabin crew that staff these hospitality events. Perhaps its just me?

[RoyalBlue]

Maybe we charge too much? And anyway, I'm still a bit miffed that if he meant hospitality was down 60% he should have said that and not "receipts" - which would give the impression of encompassing everything, from match day tickets to STs etc and that's where I got confused.

Quelle surprise!

Once again Madejski comes out with a pronouncement that confuses many (and we can't all be thick despite what his disciples say) and seems at odds with common sense, common language usage and maybe even facts!

Yes, in a normal business sense (and how many times have we been told that the club is a normal business and has to behave as such) I think 'receipts' would usually encompass all those things you mention and more. i.e. income received.

So why come out with this 'loose' but dramatic statement? Well I'm sure everyone will have different theories/explanations. I'm equally sure one thing will be proved - you can fool some of the people all of the time!

[Armadillo Roadkill]

I'm guessing corporate hospitality + advertsing and sponsorship + gate receipts (smaller crowds, fewer away fans, lots of discounts on tickets) are the revenue streams that are 40% down. It's just my guess, however.

Parachute payments and the sale of our most valuable players paid off debt that we could not have serviced next year. They cannot be factored into next year's budget as they wont be there, so we need to adjust to 60% of our spend of the past few years. Again, pure speculation on my part.

Graham Taylor was on the radio just before the Chelsea FA Cup game and was asked what had gone so wrong at Watford. He said they got carried away when they go into the Premiership, over committed themselves, gambled on staying up then gambled on going back up and lost both gambles. Hence hours away from administration years later.

Sir John must really wonder if it's worth the effort, it must feel like looking after a (very expensive) spoilt brat for him. It's not his fault property values have crashed and he can't bankroll the club anymore. He also won't cut his loses and sell to some dodgy scoundrel or just up and leave taking his money with him.

God would it be a wake up call to you lot moaning about "where's the money gone" and calling him ego man and tight fisted if he did up and leave. If he finds someone rich enough to do what he can no longer do - pour vast sums of cash into a 100% certain loss making business - and our great club's future was safe and secure, then he would.

And no I'm not him, or anyone connected to him or the club, just a humble supporter from the East Stand.

[rabidbee]

Could it be that "receipts" means revenue taken at the gate (and perhaps other merchandising), rather than all income?

[floyd__streete]

60% down? I am 99% certain we're going down.

[Sun Tzu]

I'd have thought over the last 18 years we'd have learned that you simply cannot analyse what JM says.

he shoots from the hip, he comes out with stuff in interviews that make the people who run the club wince. I really doubt that anything is down precisely 60%, he probably just means every source of income has dropped considerably (and I doubt anyone could find that odd given we're doing worse on the pitch and everyone has less spare cash).

[Terminal Boardom]

So he has misled the fans again. What a surprise. His whole gambit is to make SJM look good and to deflect any pressure away from him. By saying we are 60% down in receipts the plan is to feel sorry for him and the club so that the fans don't give him grief.

[Sir Rodger Doyle]

How is Nigel Howe still in a job?

Why can't we hear what Howe has to say in an interview? He is the one responsible for running the club, isn't he?

[Northern Git]

Done a bit of digging. In an interview with Jonny Fordham published in the Reading Post on 7th October 2009 JM is quoted as saying

"We are desperately trying to get back into the Premier League and I believe we have a great squad and great manager to do that. But during the recession we have seen a 50% drop in hospitality and we are doing the best we can. But I do believe we are a very well run club, one of the best in the country in fact"

Make of that what you will

[Snowball]

Look at our last Premiership Season = Average League Home Gate 23,454
and I think a season ticket cost £550 or so. Income = £614,376 per game

This season's average home gate is 17,707 season ticket approx £450 = 346,441 per game

That's a reduction per game of 44% EXCLUDING the massive drop in Hospitality Income.

You only have to look at all the "deals" on hospitality, to see they are struggling to fill seats in the boxes.
Deals on Cup Tickets also show that income per fan is also down.

For example, look at the cost of the Madjeski Hotel bar-meals. Much cheaper, once about £7:50 or £8, now £5:50

If spend per fan at the game is down 10% that would mean match-day income is down 51% per match

Now add in the losses on hospitality and you probably ARE approaching 60% down.

Add in "less cred" for buying shirts etc (Prem versus Championship), more shortfalls


Of course there are more actual games in the Championship (+4) but then there are policing costs, programme sellers, stewards etc.

I suspect the figure is genuinely down 60%











24031 Chelsea
22813 Everton
23353 West Ham
21379 Wigan
23091 Derby
24119 Newcastle
24024 Arsenal
22262 Boro
24022 Liverpool
24082 Sunderland
24084 Portsmouth
22130 Spurs
24135 Man Utd
21893 Bolton
23899 Villa
24062 Man City
24085 Birmingham
23374 Blackburn
24112 Fulham
24125 Spurs



23454

19640 Forest

16025 Sheff Utd

15697 Doncaster
16687 Cardiff
18147 Watford
17638 Boro
16192 Leicester
19053 Ipswich
15945 Blackpool
16629 Palace
15274 Scunthorpe
19608 Swansea
23656 Liverpool


17707

[Snowball]

A 50% drop in hospitality may mean NUMBERS
and they drop their price to try and increase the take-up

INCOME might be down 80% for all we know