England Vs Wales

[Big Foot]

Right then, after these latest games, and I guess for many, with half an eye on the future, what would be your England squad of 23 be if the Euro's were to start next month?

Assume that all players are fit, available (for me that includes the likes of Foster and Robinson etc who've recently made themselves unavailable) and in reasonable form (that's reflective of their recent form not at their best of 3 or 4 years ago - Messers Lampard, Terry and Johnson, G I'm looking at you!).

Recent form for whom? Club and/or country? Over what timescale?

[Hoop Blah]

Recent form for whom? Club and/or country? Over what timescale?

For who? Either really, whichever you think is most appropriate. As for timescales, again, that's kind of up to you. I was just trying to negate the need to take into account someone like Wilshire or Gerrard being out injured and getting back to fitness but not opening it up to say I'd pick Scholes from his 2002 form etc etc.

Take Gerrard for example, he'd be in my squad (and team) on the basis that when (if) he gets fit again he'll get back to the form he's showed for the last couple of years even though that hasn't been his best form ever.

[TBM]

Le Fondre is French though

[No Fixed Abode]

Lampard was out run, out paced and out thought by Barry last night, that in itself, is a statement of the end for Lamps.

Terry is on borrowed time as well, England have so many younger options to build a decent side, i think this would still include Barry, but we have Wilshire, Young, Johnson, Milner, Cleverley, Downing, Gerrard, Barton , Parker, with players like Henderson, Barkley and Rodwell to come.

Still keep the work ethic but have the legs and creatively that the younger players bring, they will be naive on occasions, but a lot more refreshing than the standard 4-4-2 that makes our game so draconian.

Take it you didn't watch the game then m8? The midfield was pretty shocking but Lamps was the only one to keep possesion of the ball. Milner, Barry and Downing consistantly gave the ball away which was Englands main problem. Franks pass completion r8 was top notch.

[ZacNaloen]

All Franks passes were one two's to the guy stood next to him tbf

[KDRF]

How average players like Downing Lampard and Barry can get into the supposed 4th best team in the world, confuses me.

[Hoop Blah]

Yep, he did a great job of slowing the game down and forcing us sideways and backwards time and time again.

I quite like Lampard as a player but when he plays for England he isn't played to his strengths as he is (maybe was) for Chelsea. When he's given a free license to attack and support the forward(s) he's very good. When he plays deeper and in a more orthodox midfield role he just plays too safe and is too predictable and it stops him breaking forward and getting goals which is what he's all about.

If he's not doing that for the team then there really isn't much point in him being in the side.

[Jackson Corner]

How average players like Downing Lampard and Barry can get into the supposed 4th best team in the world, confuses me.

Being the 4th best team in the world confuses me!

[Royal Rother]

I have no idea how it's done but mere words cannot convey the level of contempt I have for a system that could place England as 4th best team in the world.

[swansea jack]

I have no idea how it's done but mere words cannot convey the level of contempt I have for a system that could place England as 4th best team in the world.

Or Holland above Spain. Or us below Outer Mongolia

[who are ya?]

You could always ignore it....Just an idea.

[swansea jack]

Wasn't a great game..Wales probably deserved a draw.

Shame about the fan killed (RIP)

Once again a very small minority decide to drag the game through the gutter as generally it seemed the fans were pretty decent inside Wembley anyway.

Radio 1 news this morning said the arrests were all Welsh. Is that right?

Yes the police have said that.

Does sound like more of a punch-up that tragically ended up with a man falling and suffering a heart attack rather than all out brawl so maybe my comment was a little harsh but still its going to bring up the usual claims from non-football supporters.

Again still early days but this seems the case. Police continuing to rule out inter-club rivalries but can't really see how it can be anything other than this (in terms of the media's likely portrayal) unless the arrested are all Cardiff fans. Next Wales game is at our place.

[who are ya?]

Next Wales game is at our place.

Best keep the Swansea flags at home

[cmonurz]

I have no idea how it's done but mere words cannot convey the level of contempt I have for a system that could place England as 4th best team in the world.

The discussion has been had before, we win most games that we play, and we win a shed load more than a lot of the teams below us. Until major championships, we are really pretty good.

It just so happens that the three teams above us happen to be those I've mentioned on a thread somewhere are on massive winning streaks, in qualifying games at least, and the points they have amassed (table at http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ranki ... nking.html) reflects that.

The calculation already carries a weighting for the strength of opposition team played, too, as well as another for the strength of the confederation as a whole (eliminates the effect of some teams playing relative better/poorer sides more often based on where they are in the world). It also accounts for the importance of the match (four times the points for a World Cup game compared to a friendly, for example).

It's difficult to see how the rankings could, or should, be improved. Whether England could beat Brazil in a one-off game isn't relevant to the fact that the sum of England's results over the last four years is better than Brazil's.

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/fifafac ... points.pdf

Perhaps all that could be done would be to reduce that four year period - but that would be a disadvantage to teams that had accumulated lots of points in major championships, not a disadvantage to England. And anyway, I assume four years is used as it is a full World Cup cycle and incorporates all Confederation championships.

[cmonurz]

And fwiw we are only just 4th. Uruguay and Brazil right behind us.

Burkina Faso being ranked above Czech Republic is a strange one though, I'll give you that.

[who are ya?]

Sssshhh it's not cool to praise England around these parts

[Hoop Blah]

Again still early days but this seems the case. Police continuing to rule out inter-club rivalries but can't really see how it can be anything other than this (in terms of the media's likely portrayal) unless the arrested are all Cardiff fans. Next Wales game is at our place.

It is possible to get into a row at football without it being the result of the colour of your shirt though, so it could well be something other than a Cardiff-Swansea thing (although it is unlikely considering the rivalry that exists). Perhaps they knocked a hotdog out of his hand or jumped his place in the beer queue?

As for the Mail's story, I don't really have a problem with it. It's putting some context into the events that led up to his unfortunate death. If he was often getting into and enjoying a row at football then his death following a fight is slightly less horrific than if Dai Public got jumped upon by a few of the 'Jack Army' whilst sipping his hot chocolate and minding his own business.

[Hoop Blah]

How average players like Downing Lampard and Barry can get into the supposed 4th best team in the world, confuses me.

So who is better?

Brasil often play players like Lucas, Elano and Ramires.
Holland often play players like De Jong, Boulahrouz and Heitinga
Spain often play players like Xavi, Iniesta and Alonso!

Upshot is that a team doesn't have to be made up of superstars to be effective.

[TBM]

lol im guessing that Spain one was tongue in cheek?

[Hoop Blah]

lol im guessing that Spain one was tongue in cheek?

I couldn't think of anyone who plays for them who isn't a hell of a good player!

To be fair the others listed for the other teams are good, but then the ones listed for us aren't bad either, they're just not used that well for England.