england - the next generation

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6ft Kerplunk
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Re: england - the next generation

by 6ft Kerplunk » 13 Jun 2011 12:19

Royal Rother When my son's team played a tournament in Amsterdam a couple of years ago the lads (and parents) came back amazed at how big the Dutch youngsters were.


Isn't that just because the Dutch are a tall nation? Don't they have the tallest average height in Europe?

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Re: england - the next generation

by Royal Rother » 13 Jun 2011 12:24

I really don't know tbh.

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Re: england - the next generation

by TheMaraudingDog » 13 Jun 2011 12:58

6ft Kerplunk
Royal Rother When my son's team played a tournament in Amsterdam a couple of years ago the lads (and parents) came back amazed at how big the Dutch youngsters were.


Isn't that just because the Dutch are a tall nation? Don't they have the tallest average height in Europe?


Prettysure they're the tallest nation in the world, but that won't stop RR keep on believing in his stupid theories.

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Re: england - the next generation

by moo » 13 Jun 2011 14:34

There is a u21 tourney every 2 seasons. No country is gonna get 11 world class players ever two years FFS!

I'd be very confident having 3 international standard players from a squad would exceed all expectations and be progress for a country.

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Re: england - the next generation

by papereyes » 13 Jun 2011 15:15

Surely, RR has a point in that England are repeatedly outperformed by certain teams and that the country's FA is spending millions in trying to remedy our coaching issues along the lines he is suggesting. Or you could try and mock him and believe.

A pretty damning stat is that we have a 1/10th the number of coaches of any level than our similarly sized European rivals.


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Re: england - the next generation

by Royal Rother » 13 Jun 2011 16:11

It's hardly a shock that some English football watchers are completely unable to produce a constructive suggestion on what could be done to avoid the ritual humiliation we experience as a nation at every major tournament.

There are good reasons why England have not reached a Championship final in 45 years - I think we should explore the Whys and Wherefores in great detail, not just bury our heads in the sand.

It's just the natural order of things. Spain, France and germany et al are better than us - just accept it, eh? Sorry, but that thinking will leave us exactly where we are now. Why is it that club and national sides with hardly a 6 footer amongst them are much better than us? Oh, it's just a coincidence, a generational fluke - all these great players came through at the same time.... So they'll be crap again in a few years time, right?

I am not presenting any theories as FACT, just suggesting from what I've seen, heard and read that the policies and criteria for advancement of school age footballers in England may well be totally flawed because they generally only take account of the need / desire to win the NEXT game. Not the one in 6 months, a year, 2 or 5 years time. That lack of vision that is a mindset established over decades that we seem incapable of breaking free from.

It's a shame that some supporters' thinking also seems constricted by that approach.

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Re: england - the next generation

by Hoop Blah » 13 Jun 2011 16:40

Ritual humiliation?

You don't think you're overstating things a little bit?

We produce some excellent players, maybe not as many as we should considering the number of participants and money within our game (not that much of it gets to grassroots really) but we're still one of the top teams in the world, and our record at major championships backs that up really.

I'm all for looking to improve it, and paps is right one of the problems is the lack of coaches (although I'd argue that we probably have a lot more than those that are registered, and having seen both registered and not that isn't always a bad thing) but it's also function of the national mindset, I don't think football fans or the FA can do a hell of a lot about that.

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Re: england - the next generation

by moo » 13 Jun 2011 16:43

Clearly the post 2 above me is stating Spain and Barca as the teams with barely a 6 footer between them. To be fair their record isn't that impressive if you go back more than 4 or 5 years.

Knee Jerk reaction. All time England > All Time Spain. No contest.

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Re: england - the next generation

by Wax Jacket » 13 Jun 2011 16:53

Hoop Blah but it's also function of the national mindset


that we've become a nation of lazy ignorant shitheads basically

our coaching statistics are appalling,a nd that's certainly something the FA can do to improve things - not host major finals and tournaments


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Re: england - the next generation

by TBM » 13 Jun 2011 16:56

I do agree that kids shouldn't be playing 11-a-side football until they are around 13-14 years old. Cos as soon as you whack them onto a big pitch with big goals - they lose that ability to keep the ball and instantly think they have to knock it long and shoot on sight. Get them playing football first.

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Re: england - the next generation

by sandman » 13 Jun 2011 17:03

moo Clearly the post 2 above me is stating Spain and Barca as the teams with barely a 6 footer between them. To be fair their record isn't that impressive if you go back more than 4 or 5 years.

Knee Jerk reaction. All time England > All Time Spain. No contest.


Bull.
From Wiki
This is a list of honours for the senior Spanish national team
FIFA World Cup
Winners (1): 2010
Fourth place (1): 1950
UEFA European Championship
Winner (2): 1964, 2008
Runner-up (1): 1984
FIFA Confederations Cup
Third place (1): 2009
Olympic football tournament
Gold Medal (1): 1992
Silver Medal (2): 1920, 2000


This is a list of honours for the senior English national team
HonoursFIFA World Cup
Winners (1): 1966
Fourth place (1): 1990
UEFA European Football Championship
Third place (1): 1968
Semi-Final (1): 1996

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Re: england - the next generation

by Royal Rother » 13 Jun 2011 17:14

Hoop Blah Ritual humiliation?

You don't think you're overstating things a little bit?

We produce some excellent players, maybe not as many as we should considering the number of participants and money within our game (not that much of it gets to grassroots really) but we're still one of the top teams in the world, and our record at major championships backs that up really.

I'm all for looking to improve it, and paps is right one of the problems is the lack of coaches (although I'd argue that we probably have a lot more than those that are registered, and having seen both registered and not that isn't always a bad thing) but it's also function of the national mindset, I don't think football fans or the FA can do a hell of a lot about that.

It feels like ritual humiliation at the time!

How did we suddenly become the top cycling nation in the world? By focusing on every minute detail and having a blueprint for change that everyone in the sport embraced. And investment of course. If we achieved miracles in cycling there is no reason why similar results cannot be achieved in every bloody sport. It needs great coaches, great coaches for the coaches, investment in facilities and equipment and, most importantly (and firstly), VISION.

We are capable of change but it needs the right people at the top of the game to push it through and that includes no room whatsoever for the Blue Blazer Brigade.

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Re: england - the next generation

by Royal Rother » 13 Jun 2011 17:23

moo Clearly the post 2 above me is stating Spain and Barca as the teams with barely a 6 footer between them. To be fair their record isn't that impressive if you go back more than 4 or 5 years.

Knee Jerk reaction. All time England > All Time Spain. No contest.


What? :lol: Fantastic stuff.

Sorry, being polite, yours is the bigger knee-jerk by miles. And the implications of that are enormous because it sums up much of what England's football is all about - people in power and your average supporter really believe we are better than we really are and that, with a bit more luck we could have won the World Cup, or the Euro Championships...

Absolute rubbish. Don't you get it? We are MILES behind the top nations, and falling further behind because we cannot retain possession in tight areas.


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Re: england - the next generation

by Hoop Blah » 13 Jun 2011 17:32

Regarding the cycling, I think that success is a little out on it's own as a major achievement and I'm not sure it could be transposed into a team game like football (I know they treated themselves as a team and some of their successes are in team events, but it's not quite the same).

Wax Jacket
Hoop Blah but it's also function of the national mindset


that we've become a nation of lazy ignorant shitheads basically


To a certain extent yes.

I also think that our sport reflects a national persona at times too. We aren't, as a nation, a flamboyant and creative bunch of people (obviously some are) and we're quite functional and consistent along the way. It may just be a stereotype of course but I think it rings true as well though. Us and the Germans don't produce many flair players between us. We produce functional players.


Wax Jacket our coaching statistics are appalling,a nd that's certainly something the FA can do to improve things - not host major finals and tournaments


I think our facilities play a big part too, and within that the climate plays a part. Football is largely a winter game and we have some pretty poor surfaces to play on as a result of climate and lack on investment/TLC. It's very hard to encourage technique in those circumstances.

Major tournaments might just provide the boost to the involvement that we apparently lack at the moment. The FA are pushing Chartered Standards really hard from all I've seen so I'm not sure we can just point the finger at the FA here.

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Re: england - the next generation

by Hoop Blah » 13 Jun 2011 17:36

Royal Rother .....and your average supporter really believe we are better than we really are and that, with a bit more luck we could have won the World Cup, or the Euro Championships...


Is that the kind of person who thinks we're humilated at tournaments?

Those that appreciate where we are probably don't feel humiliated because they have a bit more sense of reality don't they? :wink:

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Re: england - the next generation

by Royal Rother » 13 Jun 2011 17:39

Couple of other stats that sum up the real world as far as the merits of Spain and England are concerned.

Spain have won the U21 Euros twice since England last won it.

Spain have won the U19 Euro 5 times since England last won it.

(France have also won the U19 Euros 5 times since England last won it and the U21s once. Italy have won the U21's 5 times since.... etc. etc. etc.)

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Re: england - the next generation

by Royal Rother » 13 Jun 2011 17:41

Hoop Blah
Royal Rother .....and your average supporter really believe we are better than we really are and that, with a bit more luck we could have won the World Cup, or the Euro Championships...


Is that the kind of person who thinks we're humilated at tournaments?

Those that appreciate where we are probably don't feel humiliated because they have a bit more sense of reality don't they? :wink:


Ah well, there's obviously more than one kind of average supporter.... :D

Anyway, where's Spacey...? He'll enjoy this discussion.

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Re: england - the next generation

by SpaceCruiser » 13 Jun 2011 22:15

FiNeRaIn Wenger knows the English game and is very good at supporting young players. He should be NAILED on to get a position within youth football in England, hopefully something more senior.


Is that right? Then why are most of the youth that he brings through from foreign lands?

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Re: england - the next generation

by Royal Rother » 13 Jun 2011 22:49


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Re: england - the next generation

by TBM » 13 Jun 2011 22:49

SpaceCruiser
FiNeRaIn Wenger knows the English game and is very good at supporting young players. He should be NAILED on to get a position within youth football in England, hopefully something more senior.


Is that right? Then why are most of the youth that he brings through from foreign lands?


cos they are better than the English ones

but i guess you've forgotten about Ashley Cole, Jack Wilshere and Kieran Gibbs

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