Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

[Cobi]

Finally, finding a buyer for this outfit won't be easy unless the land around the ground is also available to purchase.

And it isn't. I think I read somewhere that it's under some kind of protection to prevent it ever being sold for non-footballing reasons, i.e it can't ever be sold for housing etc. The stadium also can't be redeveloped there, or couldn't be, so it's a major put off for any potention buyer.

I replied to this a couple of years ago, on this thread, it's a quite widely believed untruth.

The land around FP is not under a non-football covenant, the only planning restricition which exists is one that states no housing over two storeys can be built on the land (in keeping with the housing immediately to the south east of the ground. IIRC the remainder of FP is surrounded by industrial areas + BR sidings).

This was all over the PFC forums when this kicked off a couple of years ago and it was all quoted chapter and verse from the Portsmouth City Council planning guidelines.

I may be wrong but I'm sure a few pages back someone quoted something that says nothing unrelated to football can now be built on that land. I think it was put in place after their last administration to protect the club from wannabe buyers who just want the land sale.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/business/local-business/pompey_boss_braced_for_administration_1_3506126 - Administration beckons...

If this happens, they should be thrown out of the league. I bet HMRC are going completely hatstand over this. And how can one man put the same club into administration twice? This is a total disgrace.

Looking at the various comments, the moodswing is towards pulling the plug, go into liquidation and start all over again.

absolutely disgusted by this. you would hope because it's yet another administration that the fa will punish them with an even steeper points deduction, but it will be sods law they look after the club and let them off lightly. if ever a football club took the piss financially it's this one, and look at how they muck people around repeatedly and carry on b.a.u like nothings happened.

after the previous administration they went and brought in the likes of lawrence and kitson, both on over 20k a week at the time. and look at the others still on their books. it's criminal.

If they breach the existing CVA dont they get as Luton style points deduction?

[PieEater]

I think they would also be pretty unlikely to get another CVA agreed if they do go into administration as HMRC are the biggest creditor, so it could be a lot more than 10 points deducted. I'll go for 40 (10 + 15 + 15)

[andrew1957]

I think they would also be pretty unlikely to get another CVA agreed if they do go into administration as HMRC are the biggest creditor, so it could be a lot more than 10 points deducted. I'll go for 40 (10 + 15 + 15)

40 is not enough! I want more.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

I think they would also be pretty unlikely to get another CVA agreed if they do go into administration as HMRC are the biggest creditor, so it could be a lot more than 10 points deducted. I'll go for 40 (10 + 15 + 15)

im not even sure they can agree another CVA with old one still in place. Someone more educated can no doubt confirm this or not.

[Who Moved The Goalposts?]

I think they would also be pretty unlikely to get another CVA agreed if they do go into administration as HMRC are the biggest creditor, so it could be a lot more than 10 points deducted. I'll go for 40 (10 + 15 + 15)

Well, the Pompey supporters seem to think that they owe CSI £10m for an outstanding loan, pushing the HMRC to below the required level to oppose a CVA. I have no doubt that Chainrai and his pet aministrator Andronikou will find a way of getting out of this one as well. Remember, last time they miraculously found that debt wasn't the £75m they first thought (with HMRC owed over a third of this), it was actually so much higher it luckily pushed HMRC to below 25% an therefor unable to oppose the CVA.

After their first admin and then Redknap's case, I have no faith whatsoever in the legal system's ability (or power within the so called rules) to garner justice or claw back the money that, as taxpayers, we are all owed.

[Barry the bird boggler]

But, surely they won't be allowed Administration again as they already have a CVA hanging over them ?

[exileinleeds]

But, surely they won't be allowed Administration again as they already have a CVA hanging over them ?

They could ask the creditors to vary the terms of the agreement.... HMRC will obviously say no- can they get 75% of creditors to agree?

For the record, the way a CVA works is that creditors agree to accept a % of their debt in installments for a period of time- often 5 years..at the END of that period, the balance of the debt is written off. In the normal course of events Pompey should be 2/5 of the way through the agreement- and their creditors vote may well depend on how they feel that administration has been handled. Am I imagining BC said he would pay the small debts <£2500 in full, and pay St Johns immediately? If that happened, then perhaps the company have not completely lost the support of their creditors...they may accept even less than they would before. Or not. They may feel that BC's determination to get his money back- if it ever existed- means they are more likely to vote with the taxman...

If they do enter administration then BC will be banned from club ownership, Pompey will get more than 10pts deducted...but realistically, what is worth paying any money for? Why would anyone want to buy it now?

[FiNeRaIn]

Disgusting how portsmouth aren't long gone, just about every law possible has been broken by everyone to keep them alive.

[PieEater]

I just had a look at the CVA

http://www.uhy-uk.com/resources/publica ... report851/

The striking thing to me is that they will not make the FIRST payment of the CVA that's due in April, around £2.5m. There seems to be little detail in there other than who is claiming.

This challenge to the CVA has a lot more detail of the expected income, and a lot of the predictions and warnings about the current CVA appear to have come true.

http://www.griffins.net/client/portsmouthcva.pdf

[Northern Git]

What I dont get, amongst the choas that is PFC finances, is how, when they are in administration, they can fail to pay two sizable outstanding liabilities to HMRC?

I would have thought that the adminstrator, Andrew Andronikou and his company Hacker Young, are legally bound to ensure that PFC was operationg within its financial resources. It must have been their call on not paying HMRC??

Or have I missed something??

[Royal Rother]

My thoughts entirely.

Andronikou should face some real shit over this.

[PieEater]

Without seeing the current accounts I can only guess but it seems to me that the anticipated £30m in player sales detailed in the CVA hasn't materialised. They set up and ran the current squad on that assumption.

Although it shouldn't have taken so long for them to realise the value of the squad had vastly reduce, they still appear to have continued operate well above the anticipated income.

[Deadlock]

What I dont get, amongst the choas that is PFC finances, is how, when they are in administration, they can fail to pay two sizable outstanding liabilities to HMRC?

They're not in administration. The parent company is.
They probably will go into admin soon (or try to), but they're not there yet.

[LWJ]

Hope they FOAD tbh

[buzzby]

Looks like they could be being helped out of trouble yet again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17013408

[Friday's Legacy]

ssn were talking about their troubles on saturday and said they would only get a 10 point deduction if they went into administration. i hope that's not right.

[TFF]

Looks like they could be being helped out of trouble yet again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17013408

Won't go far. They've got that tax bill and a month or more of wages to find.

[Barry the bird boggler]

Looks like they could be being helped out of trouble yet again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17013408

Won't go far. They've got that tax bill and a month or more of wages to find.

And the installment of the CVA to find as well.

[Barry the bird boggler]

ssn were talking about their troubles on saturday and said they would only get a 10 point deduction if they went into administration. i hope that's not right.

Precedent previously set was that a club going into administration a second time gets a heavier points penalty e.g. Luton, Bournemouth, Leeds etc.

Of course the FL will probably say that as they were members of the PL when they got hit with the first deduction that they'll only get a 10 point penalty this time round (that will currently see them drop to 21st in the table) so, guess what - they'll get away with it all yet again!