England squad...

[Wax Jacket]

you need holding midfielders these days because full-backs are just shit wingers who can't defend

[cmonurz]

Well, quite. But we have moved into an era of football where some midfielders have evolved into a more advanced role, and some have drifted backward to compensate.

We can only pick players who exist, unfortunately.

Tbh I’d always seen the plethora of ‘defensive midfielders’ as resulting from the more frequent use of the ‘attacking 4-5-1’ formation, the holding player often tracking the Gerrard or Rooney playing just behind the front man, or covering players breaking from the midfield, allowing the defence to keep its line.

[who are ya?]

Martin KeLOLLOLy as back up for Norway game, what's going on with this Liverpool love in from the Hodge?

[Victor Meldrew]

Martin KeLOLLOLy as back up for Norway game, what's going on with this Liverpool love in from the Hodge?

I thought people wanted younger players.
Micah Richards might as well retire himself from international football as Capello and Hodgson have decided that he is not up to it.
If Smalling and Jones are considered good enough for England at right-back or centre-back then IMHO Kelly is as good as both of them so it's no surprise really.

[winchester_royal]

Kelly's a good player tbf

[who are ya?]

There's just an alarming amount of Liverpool players

[Hoop Blah]

Kelly is a decent player, and one of a clutch of potential right backs, but I'd assume that he's on standby instead of Richards because he'll be staying in shape for the Olympics whereas Richards is away resting up after a long season.

Might be a case of 2+2 equalling 5, but it's an interesting move by Hodgson.

[No Fixed Abode]

Kelly might be a decent prospect, but I'd rather have players in the squad with CL experience. Most of these Liverpool players don't have that. And those that do haven't played in it for so long, they're not up to it now.

[Victor Meldrew]

Kelly is a decent player, and one of a clutch of potential right backs, but I'd assume that he's on standby instead of Richards because he'll be staying in shape for the Olympics whereas Richards is away resting up after a long season.

Might be a case of 2+2 equalling 5, but it's an interesting move by Hodgson.

Interesting thought but I read somewhere that Richards is expected to play in the Olympics.

[Victor Meldrew]

Kelly might be a decent prospect, but I'd rather have players in the squad with CL experience. Most of these Liverpool players don't have that. And those that do haven't played in it for so long, they're not up to it now.

Obsessed.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Well, it stands to reason managers pick people they are familiar with - it's half the job done I suppose. Everyone's squad selections have been different so it's not like any one of our picks would have raised disagreement also.

I continue to be intrigued as to why Richards is once again not selected, though. Maybe he's a cnt.

[Hoop Blah]

Agreed EP, for me Richards was the best right back in the league for the most part of the season so it's a bit odd. I assume that as Hodgson hasn't had time to have even a get together with the players before naming his squad he felt he needed to keep things relatively consistent. I suppose Pearce had some input as well and he may well have given Hodgson Fabio's opinion and they went with that in the short term.

Johnson and Kelly are both players Hodgson has worked with before so that probably gave them an edge as he knows they're already familiar with what he wants them to do.

VM, I hadn't heard anything about Richards being in the Olympics squad, and kind of assumed he wasn't. I think he might even been one of the over age players if he does get included, but borderline I think. I'm quite looking forward to seeing the Team GB side as well.....but that's a different thread!

[BR2]

Agreed EP, for me Richards was the best right back in the league for the most part of the season so it's a bit odd. I assume that as Hodgson hasn't had time to have even a get together with the players before naming his squad he felt he needed to keep things relatively consistent. I suppose Pearce had some input as well and he may well have given Hodgson Fabio's opinion and they went with that in the short term.

Johnson and Kelly are both players Hodgson has worked with before so that probably gave them an edge as he knows they're already familiar with what he wants them to do.

VM, I hadn't heard anything about Richards being in the Olympics squad, and kind of assumed he wasn't. I think he might even been one of the over age players if he does get included, but borderline I think. I'm quite looking forward to seeing the Team GB side as well.....but that's a different thread!

Having had a considerable bet on City this season I have watched their games more intently than might have been the case.
Regarding left-back first of all I couldn't see any circumstances where Kolarov would be a better prospect than Clichy-he has a powerful shot but can't defend and his poor defending did cost City some points.
On the other side Richards seemed to pick up an injury every game so Zabaleta (who also played occasionally at left-back)became the more reliable option.
Because Richards has a presence about him both with his spring in the air for set-pieces in the attacking play and is a good blocker defensively those two aspects stand out and get noticed as do his occasional forrays forward out wide.
Unfortunately for a big lad with a good spring he is poor in the air defensively-he is also poor positionally and gives the winger too much space and time and is prone to reckless challenges in dangerous areas.
When going forward he also loses possession in key areas and his crossing isn't very good.

The other right-backs around have major faults in their game,particularly when defending,and IMHO the whole package that you get with Richards is not enough to put him above others even though he himself believes that he is the best around-maybe that is an additional problem.

[winchester_royal]

Agreed EP, for me Richards was the best right back in the league for the most part of the season so it's a bit odd. I assume that as Hodgson hasn't had time to have even a get together with the players before naming his squad he felt he needed to keep things relatively consistent. I suppose Pearce had some input as well and he may well have given Hodgson Fabio's opinion and they went with that in the short term.

Johnson and Kelly are both players Hodgson has worked with before so that probably gave them an edge as he knows they're already familiar with what he wants them to do.

VM, I hadn't heard anything about Richards being in the Olympics squad, and kind of assumed he wasn't. I think he might even been one of the over age players if he does get included, but borderline I think. I'm quite looking forward to seeing the Team GB side as well.....but that's a different thread!

Having had a considerable bet on City this season I have watched their games more intently than might have been the case.
Regarding left-back first of all I couldn't see any circumstances where Kolarov would be a better prospect than Clichy-he has a powerful shot but can't defend and his poor defending did cost City some points.
On the other side Richards seemed to pick up an injury every game so Zabaleta (who also played occasionally at left-back)became the more reliable option.
Because Richards has a presence about him both with his spring in the air for set-pieces in the attacking play and is a good blocker defensively those two aspects stand out and get noticed as do his occasional forrays forward out wide.
Unfortunately for a big lad with a good spring he is poor in the air defensively-he is also poor positionally and gives the winger too much space and time and is prone to reckless challenges in dangerous areas.
When going forward he also loses possession in key areas and his crossing isn't very good.

The other right-backs around have major faults in their game,particularly when defending,and IMHO the whole package that you get with Richards is not enough to put him above others even though he himself believes that he is the best around-maybe that is an additional problem.

Others will no doubt accuse this account of being biased towards Liverpool players..

But this is an excellent post that IMHO highlights why he is constantly ignored at international level

[Zammo]

Kelly might be a decent prospect, but I'd rather have players in the squad with CL experience. Most of these Liverpool players don't have that. And those that do haven't played in it for so long, they're not up to it now.

Correct.

Johnson and Kelly are both players Hodgson has worked with before so that probably gave them an edge as he knows they're already familiar with what he wants them to do.

Yes, they performed admirably under Hodgson, as did all Liverpool players during his tenure.

[Wax Jacket]

The other right-backs around have major faults in their game,particularly when defending,and IMHO the whole package that you get with Richards is not enough to put him above others even though he himself believes that he is the best around-maybe that is an additional problem.

Others will no doubt accuse this account of being biased towards Liverpool players..

But this is an excellent post that IMHO highlights why he is constantly ignored at international level

there's a reason why Hodgson and Cappello have both ignored him I guess

[Hoop Blah]

Agree that Richards has weaknesses, I just don't think they're as bad as some make out or any less than Johnsons. The reason Capello gave for leaving him out was that he didn't (or couldn't) follow his instructions enough. I can understand why that is a black mark against him and perhaps why Hodgson didn't feel he could include him at this stage with so little time to bed in his ideas.

I've seen him beaten in the air at the far post, and from set pieces, and perhaps a bit more than he should, but he's still been better than Johnson in that regard. His pace and strength still make him a detter defender than Johnson in my book, who falls asleep when defending more than most decent fullbacks. Where Johnson does come out on top for me is what he does around the opposition box when he does manage to get there. Technique wise he's better and more likely to put in a good cross or even get you a goal. Swings and roundabouts I guess.

In regards to Kelly, I think he played well under Hodgson as it happens, although that could also have been the early Dalglish days when he got a really good run in the side.

[Big Ern]

LOL @ 'outpassed'

I HATE 'holding' midfielders, biggest cop out in the world. Got to play a defensive midfielder umm no, how about do a bit of both please. Players like Gareth Barry getting paid £90k a week to pass the ball 5 yards backwards, seriously any mongdiv could do that.

All central midfielders should be able to tackle, get about the pitch and help create a few goals a season as well as score a few themselves. If you don't, fcuk off and stop wasting everyones time.

Agree, but I think Hodgson is a bit limited in his options. Owen Hargrease was the closest we had to that until he broke, we really don't have anyone good enough that meets the discription. You could argue Gerrard, although his defensive qualities seem to have diminshed with age and is more an out and out attacking midfielder now, after that maybe Carrick.

At least with the 2 holding full backs, the full backs will eb able to support our forwards and wingers, plus make us hard to beat. If we played anyone with flair midfielders, I think he would get destroyed by the top teams. Afterall, it seems the teams that win Championships do it with lots of 1-0 victories. Look at Spains WC win, they scored 9 goals in 8 games. If we are going to be successfull in the Euro's (making it out the group that is) I think the 2 holding midfielders is the only option.

[cmonurz]

Have to feel for John Ruddy, breaks a finger in training and so won't go to Euro 2012. Equally have to be made up for Jack Butland, only just 19, from Cheltenham Town to the England squad!

[ZacNaloen]

Welbeck injured, johnson injured, parker carrying a knock

ffs