England v Chile 15/11/13

[St. Brynjar]

Needs to be a mix of Carrick, Wilshere and Gerrard in Brazil. Not enough room in the squad for Lampard, especially when someone like Gareth Barry is on far better form, and younger players like Rodwell, Jones, Henderson and maybe even Cleverley (lol) available.

With everyone fit I'd go for a 4-3-3 of:

---------------------------------------Hart-------------------------------------

Johnson-------------Jagielka/Jones-----------Cahill--------------------Cole

---------------------------Carrick-----------------Wilshere-----------------

--------------------------------------Gerrard----------------------------------

Walcott-----------------------------Rooney--------------------------Sturridge

I just don't get the Carrick love-in that so many England fans have. To me he is a good player (like Cleverly or Barry) but he is not this World Class midfielder that everyone raves about. Always goes missing in the bigger games and cannot tackle for shit. Yes his passing is his best asset....but he is certainly not the holding midfielder everyone seems to claim he is. People compare him to Scholes, but that is an insult to the best English player of his generation. Xavi, Messi, Ronaldo, Zidane and so on all raved about Scholes......don't hear any of them saying they really want to play with Carrick. I'm not saying he isn't a decent player, but to me is representative of everything that is wrong with our general perception of where we stand as a national team compared to other nations. Carrick ain't gonna win you the World Cup.

If that's what you think about Carrick then you must hate Milner.

Genuinely think Carrick is a very good player and worthy of a place in the team. What team would you field instead out of interest?

[ZacNaloen]

So chile did what pochetinos (oxf*rd spelling) Southampton do to teams weak in weak out. No surprise we lost, English defenders don't have the composure to deal with that type of pressure. That said, was essentially an experimental team and I thought they did all right. Llallana was excellent.

[Handsome Man]

I really liked Lallana - his first touch was immaculate - and Wilshere looked good. Rodriguez just didn't have the pace to create anything but tried hard. For most of the first half, we looked likely to equalise at some point, but nothing quite fell for us, and their passing and ball retention eventually ground us down.

Overall, I am sure we can find a back four that is good enough and a front four that will score goals, but it's the other two that worry me. To me, Wilshere is head and shoulders above anybody else at the moment, but didn't get picked for the last world cup games, and to have Lampard on the field for full internationals is just madness.

[sandman]

Needs to be a mix of Carrick, Wilshere and Gerrard in Brazil. Not enough room in the squad for Lampard, especially when someone like Gareth Barry is on far better form, and younger players like Rodwell, Jones, Henderson and maybe even Cleverley (lol) available.

With everyone fit I'd go for a 4-3-3 of:

---------------------------------------Hart-------------------------------------

Johnson-------------Jagielka/Jones-----------Cahill--------------------Cole

---------------------------Carrick-----------------Wilshere-----------------

--------------------------------------Gerrard----------------------------------

Walcott-----------------------------Rooney--------------------------Sturridge

I just don't get the Carrick love-in that so many England fans have. To me he is a good player (like Cleverly or Barry) but he is not this World Class midfielder that everyone raves about. Always goes missing in the bigger games and cannot tackle for shit. Yes his passing is his best asset....but he is certainly not the holding midfielder everyone seems to claim he is. People compare him to Scholes, but that is an insult to the best English player of his generation. Xavi, Messi, Ronaldo, Zidane and so on all raved about Scholes......don't hear any of them saying they really want to play with Carrick. I'm not saying he isn't a decent player, but to me is representative of everything that is wrong with our general perception of where we stand as a national team compared to other nations. Carrick ain't gonna win you the World Cup.

Paul Scholes maybe hasn't had the international career he should have. Or Michael Carrick: he makes those around him better, regardless of the fact that he's not the one who scores the most goals, or a great tackler."

There is a pause as Alonso reaches, again, the crux of the issue. A single English word he returns to that, unpacked, analysed and investigated, explains much. "I don't think tackling is a quality," he says. "It is a recurso, something you have to resort to, not a characteristic of your game. At Liverpool I used to read the matchday programme and you'd read an interview with a lad from the youth team. They'd ask: age, heroes, strong points, etc. He'd reply: 'Shooting and tackling'. I can't get into my head that football development would educate tackling as a quality, something to learn, to teach, a characteristic of your play. How can that be a way of seeing the game? I just don't understand football in those terms. Tackling is a [last] resort, and you will need it, but it isn't a quality to aspire to, a definition. It's hard to change because it's so rooted in the English football culture, but I don't understand it."

He doesn't need to tackle because he has one of the best interception rates in the country.

[ZacNaloen]

Wilshere flattered to decieve for me but is going through post long injury blues at the moment and it could take him a while to get back to normal mentally. Hopefully he'll be on form for the summer but I'm not sure.

[No Fixed Abode]

Lampard shouldn't be on the plane to Brazil, and Ashley Cole is better than Leighton Baines.

Is Lamps scared of flying then?

Always said Ashley Cole is a better all round left back than Baines but you lot get way too excited by temporary form. Andros Townsend was the best player in the World a few weeks ago. Form is temporary, class is permanent.

[Stuka]

Lampard shouldn't be allowed on the plane because he has one of those muggy faces you just want to punch. If he really must go to Brazil, he should follow the rest of the team in a different aeroplane with all the spare footballs, towels, bottles of Lucazade etc

Stuka reporting from Club Wembley

[Ouroboros]

Form is temporary, class is permanent.

Suppose Rio gets a seat on the plane as well then?

[sandman]

Lampard shouldn't be on the plane to Brazil, and Ashley Cole is better than Leighton Baines.

Is Lamps scared of flying then?

Always said Ashley Cole is a better all round left back than Baines but you lot get way too excited by temporary form. Andros Townsend was the best player in the World a few weeks ago. Form is temporary, class is permanent.

Baines has been one of if not the the best left backs in the country for the past two years m8. That's a hell of a run of "temporary form". How long should he be held back?

Ashley Cole has been a good LB for England but he's not getting any younger and his ankle needs constants management which at any month long international Tournament can be seen is a problem but at the World Cup it's doubly so. England have to ask themselves if they want to develop the way other countries do or if they really want to constantly stick with the same players who have failed to deliver over and over again.

[Ian Royal]

Gotta be all about getting the younger midfielders like Wilshire, Cleverley, Barkley and Lallana as much game time sd possible (without burning them out) so they're experienced enough when Lampard & Gerrard finally hang up their boots. Which to be honest probably should have already happened.

I'll +1 to playing Carrick, not because I particularly rate him, but because we need better passing ability in the middle and just putting in one player who can do it (like Wilshire) isn't going to help as he can't pass to himself.

I want to see these younger players getting most of the pitch time in the Finals. By all means take a couple of Lampard, Gerrard, Milner and Barry. But only start a max of one of them at a time, and mainly use them as your super subs / back-up.

[Ian Royal]

Form is temporary, class is permanent.

Suppose Rio gets a seat on the plane as well then?

And Shearer.

[From Despair To Where?]

Booby Moore too. World class defender. He may be dead, but you can't get more permanent than that.

[Hoop Blah]

I thought the performance wasn't too bad but, at the same time, we didn't look like we had enough cutting edge with Rooney upfront on his own and a lack of pace and penetration in midfield and out wide.

Lallana did well though.

Chile looked pretty decent but only really on the break and, for all the talk of how comfortable they were on the ball, I thought they gave it away just as much as us but they still had the mindset to keep the ball when they had it.

I'm not sure what it is with ITV, they seem far too keen to pick out the negatives and over play anything good the opposition do.

[Victor Meldrew]

I thought the performance wasn't too bad but, at the same time, we didn't look like we had enough cutting edge with Rooney upfront on his own and a lack of pace and penetration in midfield and out wide.

Lallana did well though.

Chile looked pretty decent but only really on the break and, for all the talk of how comfortable they were on the ball, I thought they gave it away just as much as us but they still had the mindset to keep the ball when they had it.

I'm not sure what it is with ITV, they seem far too keen to pick out the negatives and over play anything good the opposition do.

I don't think that is generally true-Foxy and I are always having a go about ITV's commentary where they are normally sycophantic about whoever is winning.
On Friday they discovered Alexis Sanchez and made him out to be a world-beater-a good player who vies with Pedro for a place in Barcelona's side.
It's the same when they do Champs League games.
It may be about to cost us more to watch those games but that is compensated by not having to hear Tyldesley (screeching the name Rio ) ,Townsend (everything English players do is unlucky)and Chiles (Adrian you are not funny).

[Silver Fox]

Some solid racism from Townsend on commentary regarding the Chileans being a bit naughty, his trip to the unemployment line is the only good thing about BT Sport's attempts to take over the world

lovely commentary on an outrageously late foul by Cahill - "Cahill's just getting a bit frustrated" what a thick fucking tit

Yep, I almost popped back into the thread on Friday just to post about this

Foreigns do foul - dirty cheating brown people where it's all part of their culture
Cahil boots someone up the arse (definite red card in a competitive game) - poor 'ickle Gary is getting frustrated because the nasty foreigns won't let him have the ball

[From Despair To Where?]

Don't forget, Townsend made a career out of slightly mistiming tackles in central midfield.

[ZacNaloen]

Very poorly stated but I thought his point was that for all the talk of fancy football South American sides have never been above intentionally fouling to break up play and that is what they were doing.

Where as Cahill did kick out angrily, there was nothing cynical about that foul.

[BR2]

Very poorly stated but I thought his point was that for all the talk of fancy football South American sides have never been above intentionally fouling to break up play and that is what they were doing.

Where as Cahill did kick out angrily, there was nothing cynical about that foul.

As I saw it he cynically kicked a player-something that Cahill will need to curb because if he does that in a friendly how will he react in the heat of a real battle like a World Cup game?
Our players are a bit prone to lashing out,e.g Beckham and Rooney in big games so Hodgson needs to give the player a good talking to.
It might be o.k. at Chelsea but it isn't o.k. if you are playing for England.

[ZacNaloen]

Not cynical in the sense that he did it for reasons more than being pissed off at a player who was bullying him. Not cynical in the sense it was unsporting.

[Hoop Blah]

Not cynical in the sense that he did it for reasons more than being pissed off at a player who was bullying him. Not cynical in the sense it was unsporting.

I'd agree the Cahil one wasn't a cynical 'tactical' foul but I also agree that it's not something we shy away from either, hence the often used phrases of 'a good foul to concede' and 'taking one for the team'.

The point that the South Americans have always been happy to do the same thing is quite right though.