Rooney -v- Walcott

[6ft Kerplunk]

The difference is that Wenger stole those players from other clubs.

Did Beckham, the Neville brothers, Lee Sharpe come from other clubs before playing for Manchester United?

Top research there Spacey.

[TBM]

Maybe I'm being a bit blind here, but apart from the Beckham generation, what youngsters has Fergie developed?

I don't really think the nationality of the players is of any relevance. Wenger just hasn't rated the English youngsters. He goes for intelligent footballers with silky skills and vision and there just haven't been too many of those with a British passport about in recent years, more's the pity. I think he's found one in Walcott.

I actually agree here - just cos Wenger hasn't produced any decent youngsters (bar Cole) it doesn't mean he's not good at it. Look what he did/is doing with Anelka, Viera, Henry, Toure, Senderos, Fabregas, Flamini etc etc - he turned their career around.

The difference is that Wenger stole those players from other clubs.

Did Beckham, the Neville brothers, Lee Sharpe come from other clubs before playing for Manchester United?

This is how the conversation went:

He is obviously with the better nurturing club,

Are you bloody joking?!?

Does it matter where these players started their career? - the fact is they developed whilst being under Wengers wing.....

[Dirk Gently]

You're not giving him his real name - according to BBC berkshire his name is Compton's Theo Walcott.

[Vision]

Maybe I'm being a bit blind here, but apart from the Beckham generation, what youngsters has Fergie developed?

I don't really think the nationality of the players is of any relevance. Wenger just hasn't rated the English youngsters. He goes for intelligent footballers with silky skills and vision and there just haven't been too many of those with a British passport about in recent years, more's the pity. I think he's found one in Walcott.

I actually agree here - just cos Wenger hasn't produced any decent youngsters (bar Cole) it doesn't mean he's not good at it. Look what he did/is doing with Anelka, Viera, Henry, Toure, Senderos, Fabregas, Flamini etc etc - he turned their career around.

Don't tell me Jermaine Pennant or David Bentley didn't possess great technique as teenagers. Both regularly shone at teenage international level with ability every bit as good as their foreign counterparts.

Like i say i'm not knocking Wenger as such but i do think there are obviously cultural differences associated with Wenger and how he views English footballers.

[Hoop Blah]

Walcott has the potential to have a fantastic career and to go on and achieve everything the game has to offer.

He appears to be the natural successor to Owen on the international stage and it will be to Walcotts advantage if Owen makes a full recovery from his latest injury. He'll have no better club and international role models to turn to and if he can learn from Henry and Owen we could have one hell of a talent on our hands.

Rooney and Walcotts achievements in the game could be closely linked as they look like they might become our first choice forward pairing for the next decade. Who will be the better player though is impossible to say. Rooney probably has the higher propensity to throw it all away because he doesn't appear to have the calmer personality of Walcott but he does have the physical strength to help him cope more with the rigures of football at the top level.

I hope for both players sake they are given the time and space to grow as players and people and that their inevitable dips in form aren't pounced on by fans and media.

I look forward to the day when a fully fit England squad contains an in form Rooney, Owen, Walcott, Ashton and Crouch going into Euro 2008!

[TBM]

Maybe I'm being a bit blind here, but apart from the Beckham generation, what youngsters has Fergie developed?

I don't really think the nationality of the players is of any relevance. Wenger just hasn't rated the English youngsters. He goes for intelligent footballers with silky skills and vision and there just haven't been too many of those with a British passport about in recent years, more's the pity. I think he's found one in Walcott.

I actually agree here - just cos Wenger hasn't produced any decent youngsters (bar Cole) it doesn't mean he's not good at it. Look what he did/is doing with Anelka, Viera, Henry, Toure, Senderos, Fabregas, Flamini etc etc - he turned their career around.

Don't tell me Jermaine Pennant or David Bentley didn't possess great technique as teenagers. Both regularly shone at teenage international level with ability every bit as good as their foreign counterparts.

Like i say i'm not knocking Wenger as such but i do think there are obviously cultural differences associated with Wenger and how he views English footballers.

Bentley i think he should have kept hold of - always rated him but Pennant i believe had some kind of attitude problem and cos he was signed at such a young age for such a high price that maybe he felt it should have been handed to him on a plate unlike these other youngsters who would work their bollocks off to become a professional footballer.

[papereyes]

Did Beckham, the Neville brothers, Lee Sharpe come from other clubs before playing for Manchester United?

Lee Sharpe did.

[TBM]

Did Beckham, the Neville brothers, Lee Sharpe come from other clubs before playing for Manchester United?

Lee Sharpe did.

Also, wasn't Beckham at Spurs before he joined Man Utd???

[Vision]

Maybe I'm being a bit blind here, but apart from the Beckham generation, what youngsters has Fergie developed?

I don't really think the nationality of the players is of any relevance. Wenger just hasn't rated the English youngsters. He goes for intelligent footballers with silky skills and vision and there just haven't been too many of those with a British passport about in recent years, more's the pity. I think he's found one in Walcott.

I actually agree here - just cos Wenger hasn't produced any decent youngsters (bar Cole) it doesn't mean he's not good at it. Look what he did/is doing with Anelka, Viera, Henry, Toure, Senderos, Fabregas, Flamini etc etc - he turned their career around.

Don't tell me Jermaine Pennant or David Bentley didn't possess great technique as teenagers. Both regularly shone at teenage international level with ability every bit as good as their foreign counterparts.

Like i say i'm not knocking Wenger as such but i do think there are obviously cultural differences associated with Wenger and how he views English footballers.

Bentley i think he should have kept hold of - always rated him but Pennant i believe had some kind of attitude problem and cos he was signed at such a young age for such a high price that maybe he felt it should have been handed to him on a plate unlike these other youngsters who would work their bollocks off to become a professional footballer.

Fair enough but the fact still remains that they didn't make it under Wenger. It's complete supposition but I'd venture they'd both have had a better chance at Utd under Fergie.

Of course Theo may prove to be the exception that proves the rule and i really hope he does because clearly he has a great future. Still think it's a bit early to talk about him in the same way as Rooney though.

[TBM]

Maybe I'm being a bit blind here, but apart from the Beckham generation, what youngsters has Fergie developed?

I don't really think the nationality of the players is of any relevance. Wenger just hasn't rated the English youngsters. He goes for intelligent footballers with silky skills and vision and there just haven't been too many of those with a British passport about in recent years, more's the pity. I think he's found one in Walcott.

I actually agree here - just cos Wenger hasn't produced any decent youngsters (bar Cole) it doesn't mean he's not good at it. Look what he did/is doing with Anelka, Viera, Henry, Toure, Senderos, Fabregas, Flamini etc etc - he turned their career around.

Don't tell me Jermaine Pennant or David Bentley didn't possess great technique as teenagers. Both regularly shone at teenage international level with ability every bit as good as their foreign counterparts.

Like i say i'm not knocking Wenger as such but i do think there are obviously cultural differences associated with Wenger and how he views English footballers.

Bentley i think he should have kept hold of - always rated him but Pennant i believe had some kind of attitude problem and cos he was signed at such a young age for such a high price that maybe he felt it should have been handed to him on a plate unlike these other youngsters who would work their bollocks off to become a professional footballer.

Fair enough but the fact still remains that they didn't make it under Wenger. It's complete supposition but I'd venture they'd both have had a better chance at Utd under Fergie.

Of course Theo may prove to be the exception that proves the rule and i really hope he does because clearly he has a great future. Still think it's a bit early to talk about him in the same way as Rooney though.

Surely Ashley Cole is the exception to the rule already?

I dont think people can really compare Walcott to Rooney as they are totally different players - Walcott is more, i reckon, like an Owen than a Rooney - Rooney offers far more than just pace and goals.

[Vision]

Surely Ashley Cole is the exception to the rule already?

I dont think people can really compare Walcott to Rooney as they are totally different players - Walcott is more, i reckon, like an Owen than a Rooney - Rooney offers far more than just pace and goals.

True.

True again. I just think Walcott like Owen can go onto be a great player. I just think Rooney is special ( obvious pun not intended ) and the sort of player that comes along very very rarely.

[Royal Rother]

As the thread starter can I just point out that I was not really intending to make comparisons of Rooney and Walcott as players, just what they will achieve, and I think Walcott has more going for him than just talent.

Temperament, looks, physique*, intelligence will all help Walcott compliment his talent and fulful his potential, whereas those are all somewhat against Rooney.

*Short-term Rooney's strength and aggression have been / are major assets, but I fear that being so heavy-set may, in the long-term, shorten his career.

[Vision]

An awful lot of "great players" don't necessarily have the longest careers.

Best, Maradona & Cruyff never really played at the top of their game for as long as they probably should have.

All 3 of those players will regularly appear in " alltime great lists " yet none of them really had the longevity at the highest level some would have expected.

All 3 were completely different in physical , emotional and intellectual qualities.

What I'm trying to say ( rather clumsily ) is that i don't believe that there is a set blue-print physically or mentally as to who will or won't succeed in the long term.

Also how would you define "achievement" ?

Trophies won?
Caps won?
Goals scored?
Money made?
Respect from your peers?.
Cult status?
Career after football?
Making the most of your talent?
Legacy in the game?

If Rooney was to win 100 caps & 10 trophies but retire at 28 would he have "acheived" more than Walcott if Theo had played for longer and became a media darling after his 20 year playing career came to an end?

[Royal Rother]

Indeed, and fair points all.

It is fanciful, subjective, impossible to define etc. etc., but still makes for an above-average Hobnob discussion.

[Maguire]

It is fanciful, subjective, impossible to define etc. etc., but still makes for an above-average Hobnob discussion.

Very modest

[TheMaraudingDog]

Since this thread Rooney has 3 Premiership Medals and a Champions League medal with one final left to play in.

Already Walcott is lagging miles behind Rooney.

RoyaLOL Rother

[Royal Rother]

Good grief, you sad man!!!

[Thaumagurist*]

And Arsene Wenger hasn't won a single trophy in four seasons with his so-called precious and mostly foreign youngsters with imaginary intelligence and silky skills..

[TBM]

And Arsene Wenger hasn't won a single trophy in four seasons with his so-called precious and mostly foreign youngsters with imaginary intelligence and silky skills..

The thing is though Spacey - these players are still young, as you say, what will happen when Man Utd's and Chelsea's lot get past it and they have no youngsters coming through of the same quality.....at some point there has to be a transition period, even if its only 1 season - it could be that season that Arsenals youngsters who have been together for years finally get their rewards and win the Premiership/FA Cup etc

[Harry Carry]

Rooney is a gr8 player. He works so hard for the team and isn't a flash harry. Much like Tevez.