Have I made a big mistake?

[Schards#2]

Didn't renew my season ticket - pissed off with trying to find somewhere to park, queueing for a beer and a pie, surrounded by people who were moaning at Kitson after 10 minutes against Middlesborough and probably hadn't been to many football matches.

Exasperated that Man U/Liverpool/Chelsea fans found their way into the North Stand and sad (but not surprised) that the Prem contained so many cheats and divers.

So this season I'm going to pick and choose (hopefully) the games I go to and not be committed to going to every game.

Have I got it wrong?

Ask Shards, he seems to be the expert on these matters.

PS. Don't even mention that we might need a bigger stadium.

Compared to you, yes I am an expert.

Woodcote Royal wrote: "Season tickets won't go anywhere near open sale"

You know, instead of making infantile catty remarks, it might be less humiliating for you to simply put your hands up and admit you were wrong.

Not wishing to die of asphixiation, I won't be holding my breath though

[The 17 Bus]

Asphixiation is a very big sexual game in the tory party tho, do you still deny we need a bigger stadium, regardless of the fact that at least 3/4 of the games this season will sell out, with a lot of other people missing out on seats?

How long would you wait untill RFC expand, and how many disappointed people would you want to see before it is expanded, and I would include away fans in this as well.

[Woodcote Royal]

Didn't renew my season ticket - pissed off with trying to find somewhere to park, queueing for a beer and a pie, surrounded by people who were moaning at Kitson after 10 minutes against Middlesborough and probably hadn't been to many football matches.

Exasperated that Man U/Liverpool/Chelsea fans found their way into the North Stand and sad (but not surprised) that the Prem contained so many cheats and divers.

So this season I'm going to pick and choose (hopefully) the games I go to and not be committed to going to every game.

Have I got it wrong?

Ask Shards, he seems to be the expert on these matters.

PS. Don't even mention that we might need a bigger stadium.

Compared to you, yes I am an expert.

Woodcote Royal wrote: "Season tickets won't go anywhere near open sale"

You know, instead of making infantile catty remarks, it might be less humiliating for you to simply put your hands up and admit you were wrong.

Not wishing to die of asphixiation, I won't be holding my breath though

I guess this post comes under the "I've made a complete tool of myself on one thread so I better go elsewhere" category

One full stadium, season tickets sold out weeks before the season begins and one selfish fan who thinks all those who currently can't watch their team shoud get on their knees and pray for relegation

[Royal With Cheese]

Didn't renew my season ticket - pissed off with trying to find somewhere to park, queueing for a beer and a pie, surrounded by people who were moaning at Kitson after 10 minutes against Middlesborough and probably hadn't been to many football matches.

Exasperated that Man U/Liverpool/Chelsea fans found their way into the North Stand and sad (but not surprised) that the Prem contained so many cheats and divers.

So this season I'm going to pick and choose (hopefully) the games I go to and not be committed to going to every game.

Have I got it wrong?

Ask Shards, he seems to be the expert on these matters.

PS. Don't even mention that we might need a bigger stadium.

Compared to you, yes I am an expert.

Woodcote Royal wrote: "Season tickets won't go anywhere near open sale"

You know, instead of making infantile catty remarks, it might be less humiliating for you to simply put your hands up and admit you were wrong.

Not wishing to die of asphixiation, I won't be holding my breath though

I guess this post comes under the "I've made a complete tool of myself on one thread so I better go elsewhere" category

One full stadium, season tickets sold out weeks before the season begins and one selfish fan who thinks all those who currently can't watch their team shoud get on their knees and pray for relegation

Am I the only one who isn't 100% sure what the hell is going on anymore?

[Royal Lady]

I thought season tickets WEREN'T sold out weeks before the season begins. I thought that was the point - YOU said they'd never go on General Sale, and yet they're on sale to holders of 5 points - which would be someone who's never actually been to a game surely? So, therefore, they were on "general sale" in a manner of speaking, if not actually worded as such. And as the season tickets didn't sell like hot cakes this year, I, personally, would rather wait another year or two before extending the stadium - however, each to their own. The fact that Schards made a comment based on his own opinion and that is being rubbished by Woodcote merely shows how puerile Woodcote actually is. IMHO.

[T.R.O.L.I.]

IMHO.

In my husband's opinion?

[Dirk Gently]

IMHO.

In my husband's opinion?

[Schards#2]

Didn't renew my season ticket - pissed off with trying to find somewhere to park, queueing for a beer and a pie, surrounded by people who were moaning at Kitson after 10 minutes against Middlesborough and probably hadn't been to many football matches.

Exasperated that Man U/Liverpool/Chelsea fans found their way into the North Stand and sad (but not surprised) that the Prem contained so many cheats and divers.

So this season I'm going to pick and choose (hopefully) the games I go to and not be committed to going to every game.

Have I got it wrong?

Ask Shards, he seems to be the expert on these matters.

PS. Don't even mention that we might need a bigger stadium.

Compared to you, yes I am an expert.

Woodcote Royal wrote: "Season tickets won't go anywhere near open sale"

You know, instead of making infantile catty remarks, it might be less humiliating for you to simply put your hands up and admit you were wrong.

Not wishing to die of asphixiation, I won't be holding my breath though

I guess this post comes under the "I've made a complete tool of myself on one thread so I better go elsewhere" category

One full stadium, season tickets sold out weeks before the season begins and one selfish fan who thinks all those who currently can't watch their team shoud get on their knees and pray for relegation

Apart from the facts that:

1. The general consensus on the other thread is that you are looking stupider with every post

2. 9 days from the start of the season, season tickets are still available to any human being on the planet who wants one.

3. The stadium isn't sold out, there are 2,200 available for every game many of which we go to general sale for the majority of games so any human being on the planet who wants one can have one.

That's a pretty accurate post.

[Behindu]

And as the season tickets didn't sell like hot cakes this year, .

We sold 17500 or so ST. Every single ticket bar the odd one in a dodgy location. I can;t believe some people are so negative ! It's a huge number for a club like ours.

I, personally, would rather wait another year or two before extending the stadium - however, each to their own..

Each to their own indeed, but why would you wait to add another few thouasand seats when we know the demand is there for them now ? Delay 2 years and you are 3 years aways from getting the revenue and accommodating the people who can;t get in at the moment. It's a pretty low risk strategy.

The fact that Schards made a comment based on his own opinion and that is being rubbished by Woodcote merely shows how puerile Woodcote actually is. IMHO.

Never seen others rubbishing the opinions of people do you ? I agree the arguement has been silly on both parts, but there has to be a certain degree of glass house syndrome here....

[Royal Lady]

I, personally, would wait to see how we fare in the league in the next 2 seasons, if we're hanging on by our fingertips and not improving the player power of the team, I wouldn't risk building thousands more seats, knowing how fickle the supporters can be - or we may have egg on our faces if we get relegated 2 or 3 years down the line, not to mention thousands of empty seats.

[Schards#2]

Behindu, surely you can accept that we do not need the extra seats if we are relegated? Given that the club has, clearly, made a decision to be less profligate in terms of wages/transfer fees than virtually any other team in the Premiership, (rightly or wrongly), you must accept that relegation is a real possibility in the next 3 years or so.

It's hard to think of many teams without a regular top flight history who have gone up and stayed up for any period of time. Maybe Charlton (until now) and Bolton. So, if we agree we don't need the extra seats if we are relegated, that makes it a high risk strategy.

If we stay up, the gate receipts represent a small fraction of the clubs total income and the additional revenue raised by the extra seats would represent a tiny fraction. Therefore, financially, I don't see the argument.

The only argument is that we have a duty to provide access to more fans. This is fine if there is the demand. You are making assumptions based on demand at the highwater mark of the club's 130 year history. The current success is the exception rather than the norm. Even then, after the greatest season in the club's history, demand for tickets HAS fallen. All but the most ignorant and blinkered can see that.

If indications are that we are likely to stay in the prem and that there is a demand for additional seats then, after a couple of further seasons, it is worth considering but, given all of the above, it's my opinion that right now there is not sufficient evidence to justify the huge expense of a potential white elephant and the risk of us being left in a mourge like half empty stadium should the prem prove to be a highpoint rather than the norm.

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.

[Stranded]

The thing is, whenever we look to expand it is going to be a risk.

If we're relegated this season then no work will take place but if we stay up then it should begin.

Say we wait, 3 seasons to see where we are in the league - there will still be no guarantee that the following season we won't go down and make us seem foolish - same can be said in 5 years, 10 years, 15 years.

Charlton for example had a very solid 7 years at this level never looking like going down and then one bad season and it's goodbye. Same could happen to us.

The longer we leave it the longer we are denying ourselves the extra income those seats will produce that then could be used to strengthen the team further - that doesn't make sense to me.

A 30,000 seat stadium would certainly sell out 4 times at worse (for the big 4) and more than likely games against Spurs, West Ham, Newcastle etc wouldn't be far off. Our average would certainly be more than we can fill at the moment. Kid for a quid etc could even see games like Wigan sell out at increased capacity.

We most probably won't sell more STs (we may even sell less) initially but if it is easier for fans to get in on matchdays then they will come as people want to see top flight football. If they can get in easily and regularly they may end up buying STs for future seasons or at least become regulars.

[Dirk Gently]

Exactly!

The best way to increase the chances of us staying up to to put ourselves into a situation where we can maximise ticket revenue - then we can spend more on players and wages to compete.

It will also have the additional effect of giving the message to potential players and their agents that we are ambitious and in for the long-term.

We'll never be "ready" - so the sooner we do it the sooner we can benefit from it.

[Hoop Blah]

If we stay up, the gate receipts represent a small fraction of the clubs total income and the additional revenue raised by the extra seats would represent a tiny fraction. Therefore, financially, I don't see the argument.

I'm not sure that's quite true.

Current gate receipts are probably around the £12-14m mark (24k x £30 x 19). Not a small fraction of the clubs revenue really. Not equal to TV money, but I'd guess it's our second largest revenue stream.

The increase might not be that great to start with, but if we follow the plans to increase to 38k then that's probably another £7m IF they're all sold out. I agree thats unlikely week-in-week-out but even if they're sold 50% of the time it generates enough cash per year to add needed funds to Coppell's budget.

[Schards#2]

Exactly!

The best way to increase the chances of us staying up to to put ourselves into a situation where we can maximise ticket revenue - then we can spend more on players and wages to compete.

It will also have the additional effect of giving the message to potential players and their agents that we are ambitious and in for the long-term.

We'll never be "ready" - so the sooner we do it the sooner we can benefit from it.

If 5,000 extra tickets are sold for every game, (which they most certainly would not be), this would still only generate about £2.5m per year. We are currently receiving £40 million in TV rights and around £10m in gate receipts.

If we are not prepared to compete financially on a turnover of £50m, why would we on £52.5m?

[sheshnu]

Can't believe people are arguing against expanding the stadium and therefore increasing revenue and allowing more Reading fans to watch their team on the basis that the club might 'look silly' if it's relegated.

Surely if the club can afford to expand (it can) and the demand is currently there (it is) then it's that horrendous phrase, a 'no-brainer'.

You simply do not make any progress through standing still out of fear of something that might not happen!

[Stranded]

Exactly!

The best way to increase the chances of us staying up to to put ourselves into a situation where we can maximise ticket revenue - then we can spend more on players and wages to compete.

It will also have the additional effect of giving the message to potential players and their agents that we are ambitious and in for the long-term.

We'll never be "ready" - so the sooner we do it the sooner we can benefit from it.

If 5,000 extra tickets are sold for every game, (which they most certainly would not be), this would still only generate about £2.5m per year. We are currently receiving £40 million in TV rights and around £10m in gate receipts.

If we are not prepared to compete financially on a turnover of £50m, why would we on £52.5m?

But surely it makes more sense to have the option to get those funds in and then choose how it is spent, than not have them at all?

[Dirk Gently]

If we stay up, the gate receipts represent a small fraction of the clubs total income and the additional revenue raised by the extra seats would represent a tiny fraction. Therefore, financially, I don't see the argument.

I'm not sure that's quite true.

Current gate receipts are probably around the £12-14m mark (24k x £30 x 19). Not a small fraction of the clubs revenue really. Not equal to TV money, but I'd guess it's our second largest revenue stream.

The increase might not be that great to start with, but if we follow the plans to increase to 38k then that's probably another £7m IF they're all sold out. I agree thats unlikely week-in-week-out but even if they're sold 50% of the time it generates enough cash per year to add needed funds to Coppell's budget.

By my calculations 50% utilisation is more or less certain, and I can see a whole lot more than that.

Being conservative :

Of the 19 matches, the big 4 will completely sell-out regardless of what capacity we have.

The likes of Spurs, Newcastle, Everton & West Ham will probably completely sell out - but let's call it 80% sold.

Then the next "tier" - Aston Villa, Sunderland, Middlesboro, Portsmouth, Man City - let's just say they sell 40% of the new capacity.

Then let's say the remaining 5 teams sell just 5% of the extra capacity - that alone gives us 50% utilisation of the new capacity - but as I say I can see these numbers being much higher.

Alos, throw in a couple of cup ties as the icing on the cake!

It also gives us spare capacity to do promotions - and gives us commercial flexibility - something sadly missing at the moment.

PS - demand hasn't noticably gone down this year.

[Hoop Blah]

But surely it makes more sense to have the option to get those funds in and then choose how it is spent, than not have them at all?

Especially if that £2.5m extra is purely profit as opposed a high percentage of the £50m is to cover the costs of running the club.

It could be that from that £50m we've only got £10m or £5m 'profit' which is put aside to improve the squad. If we then rake in an additional £2.5m we've boosted the profit and transfer kitty by 25 or 50%.

That has to help.

[Dirk Gently]

The other point to make is that kids won't wait!

There's a whole generation of Reading kids who would love to come to the MadStad every week and watch their local team - as long as they could get tickets and those tickets were affordable.

Without the space to put them and the flexibility to do promotions, they'll grow up being TV supporters, and if they support a team via the TV set why should it be Reading? Why not one of the big four?

NOW is the time to get them hooked, while we're doing so well, and without capacity to do that they'll be lost to us for ever.