Nicky and Siddy sat on a bench

[PEARCEY]

How much do you expect them to have achieved considering it's only the middle of October?

Shorey has started 7 of Villa's league games and they sit rather nicely in the top 6.

To say that Sidwell has achieved nothing is a bit harsh, he would've won a league runners up medal last season (even if he didn't qualify for one, being part of that squad will have taught him a lot about what it takes to win at the highest level) plus financially secured his family for life. I didn't like the things he said in the media whilst holding out for his free transfer, but I have a lot of respect for the way he played and can understand why he did it.

Kitson has taken a little longer to settle by the sounds of it, but then he's also been there for less time.

Thats why I used the word "yet" in my response.

[Woodcote Royal]

To say that Sidwell has achieved nothing is a bit harsh, he would've won a league runners up medal last season (even if he didn't qualify for one, being part of that squad will have taught him a lot about what it takes to win at the highest level) plus financially secured his family for life. I didn't like the things he said in the media whilst holding out for his free transfer, but I have a lot of respect for the way he played and can understand why he did it.

Saying that Sidwell has achieved anything other than improve his bank balance since he left us is nothing short of laughable.

His move to Villa is at least a realistic one, as opposed to Chelsea, where he never stood the slightest chance of breaking into their world class midfield.

He may get himself ahead of Reo Coker in the pecking order but, frankly, I doubt it. And, if he fails, everything about his depature from RFC will have been an unmitigated disaster except for the size of his wallet....................... so often mentioned by his ever desperate fan club.

So, let's deal with the financial spoils. Sidwell played his first season in the Premiership for 8k a week rather than sign a new contract so, he was an absolute minimum of 10k a week light by the end of the campaign.

There's no doubting he earned loads of money at the bridge but it's absolute garbage to suggest that he couldn't have doubled his wages by going to a club where he stood a good chance of regular Premiership football...................isn't Kitson on £25k a week at Stoke?

I could be wrong but my hunch is that both Shorey and Sidwell have been bought as squad players for Martin O'Neill's rapidly improving team and that could spell disaster for the forgotten man AKA Steve Sidwell.

As for Shorey, his final season with us left a particularly bad taste in the mouth. No one players "Couldn't give a shit" attitude did more to relegate us than his and if there's one former player who really needs to learn that he doesn't have a God-given right to start every match then, in my view, that's Shorey.

This contrasts with Sidwell who I would never accuse of lack of effort. However, I sincerely believe that he and his former club would have benefited from him signing a new deal and, therefore, attracting a new club who really wanted him in their team and were prepared to pay a fee.

I believe this would have enhanced the career of an average Prem player at best whilst leaving him no poorer at the bank.

[Alan Partridge]

It's quite simple, Chelsea or any of the big 4 come knocking and you don't say no (just like SWP, Scott Parker), for lots of reasons including as you right say for money. Sidwell played for a year with some of the best players in the world, it can only have helped him as a player, although i'm sure he'd have wanted to play a bit more! He got a transfer to a club where he will start far more readily, he's been injured recently but will get back in sooner rather than later.

The only losers out of the Sidwell deal were Reading. We got nothing for one of our best players, never replaced him and got relegated the following season. I have no grudge with Sidwell and I can't quite understand what you have against him, he saw his contract out, played every game for Reading in the same way (i.e. gave his absolute all) and got a transfer to one of the best clubs around.

As for Shorey, he's a funny one. When he's playing well he is a superb player, deserved England appearances when with us, however I think that cost us. Once he started hanging around the England squad he must have had his head turned slightly with 'I'm on xx amount here' and 'you should try and get a move to xxx' His form dipped drastically last season and it seems from his early appearances that he hasn't recaptured his best form. He's a decent player though and given time he really ought to sort himself out at Villa.

As for saying his 'couldn't give a shit' attitude was one of the main reasons we went down, not really. If he was so crap why didn't our beloved manager ever replace him? Simple, because the squad he assembled wasn't remotely good enough. We had zero alternative really. Not just that but I feel the total incompetence of the squad as a whole last season was the main reason for our demise. Hahnemann was average last season and imo our POTY. None of our forwards really did anything, we played the majority of the season without a right winger, and our 'spine' right down the middle of the park was woeful all season.

Both of these players are 2 of the very best players in their positions to ever play for this club, over a long period of time they produced moments of quality and memories for us supporters of the club. Both of them will be remembered in fondness by myself and in 30-40 years time I have no doubt we'll be harking back to the 'glory days' of the likes of Sidwell and Shorey more than likely when we're struggling it out with Rotherham in Division 4.

[Silver Fox]

Can I just say what a delight it is to finally see Sidwell's departure being discussed

[Woodcote Royal]

Deluded as ever I see, AP.

Many players elect to join a lesser/smaller club where they stand a better chance of first team football........................isn't that what Sidwell did when he left Arsenal That struck me as quite a "simple" choice between "One of the big four" and Lil 'ol RFC.

I heard Bentley saying something similar about joining Tottenham.

I haven't totally excluded Sidwell's chances of being a regular starter at Villa but as O' Neill continue's to strengthen, his task looks tougher by the day.

I agree that Shorey has been our best left back to date but there's no mystery about his fluctuating levels of performance. He's a good left back when he gives a sh*t and is prepared to put in the effort.

Sidwell, on the other hand, is vastly over rated by fans like yourself and was badly advised when he left us. The fact he wasn't replaced meant we missed him but when Coppell was finally shoe-horned into buying a new left back, how much do we actually miss our former England International ? In his absense we've even found someone who can take a decent corner with his left foot!!!

As much as I was annoyed by the remarks he made about this club, It is sad to see a player like Sidwell, who is never short on effort, finding his carrer in a state of limbo. I don't believe he's happy just collecting a huge pay cheque. Unless he can make an impact at Villa, he's looking down the barrell at 2 wasted years in a short career.

[Hoop Blah]

If Chelsea had come in for Bentley then he would've signed for them over Spurs.

As for Shorey being a squad player....well he's started a hell of a lot of games for a squad player!

[Woodcote Royal]

Villa's previous first choice left back was/is? injured.

I guess you either believe what Bentley said or you don't but, languishing as a top four squad player is not the best way to enhance your international credentials....................which Bentley has and Sidwell does not.
I

[papereyes]

Bouma is out for most, if not all, of the season.

Villa only signed Shorey after his injury. They played Stieber at left back in the friendly.

[Hoop Blah]

Villa's previous first choice left back was/is? injured.

I guess you either believe what Bentley said or you don't but, languishing as a top four squad player is not the best way to enhance your international credentials....................which Bentley has and Sidwell does not.
I

I'm sure Bently does want to play, but did he have the option of going to Chelsea or any of the other top 4 clubs when Spurs were in for him? No, so his comments don't have a lot of weight behind them. He'd also spent a fair amount of time at Arsenal trying to break into their team and moved away, so he'd done that bit to an extent whereas Sidwell left without getting close to breaking into the Arsenal side and so had more reason to take a punt.

Yes his decision to join Chelsea was probably more motivated by money than football, but I think thats perfectly understandable and as far as his career goes, playing with the likes of Ballack, Essien, Makelel and Lampard is hardly going to make you a worse player in the long term is it!

As for Shorey and Bouma's injury...the fact he's out for the season means that Shorey should play a lot of games and have a chance to establish himself in a side really pushing for Europe and with a chance of making the top 4. Surely you can't have a pop at him for that? He's playing games at a top club, the exact thing you say Sidwell should've been looking to do when he left.

[Woodcote Royal]

I've got no idea exactly what Bentley's option were and neither have you but most ambitious players would select first team football over the certainty of being a squad player at Chelsea.

So yes, I would seriously criticize Sidwell or his advisers for making that decision and the longer he goes without regular first team the more costly to his career the error becomes.

EDIT

I'm only knocking Shorey for attitude last season but my hunch is that he will be number 2 when Bouma returns but, we'll see.

[Hoop Blah]

Would they?

Who has, according to the information in the public domain, turned down Chelsea and their mega-money for first team football at their current club?

I can think of a fair few who haven't but none, off the top of my head, who've turned it down.

Bentley had an assured first team spot at Blackburn, a side pushing for Europe for the last couple of seasons. The team was almost built around him. He chose to leave them for a Spurs side who've had more than their fair share of ups and downs where he wouldn't be certain of first team football.

[Hoop Blah]

I'm only knocking Shorey for attitude last season but my hunch is that he will be number 2 when Bouma returns but, we'll see.

I agree on Shorey's attitude last season, the manager should've done a lot more to make sure it didn't effect results in the way it did. I won't let that cloud my memory of him as the best footballing left back outside of the top 4.

Don't forget that Bouma couldn't get in the side for his first 6 months or so at Villa. O'Neil obviously rates him and I wouldn't be surprised if he came back as first choice, but I think Shorey has a great chance of making the spot his own if he can rediscover his old form.

[Woodcote Royal]

Would they?

Who has, according to the information in the public domain, turned down Chelsea and their mega-money for first team football at their current club?

I can think of a fair few who haven't but none, off the top of my head, who've turned it down.

Bentley had an assured first team spot at Blackburn, a side pushing for Europe for the last couple of seasons. The team was almost built around him. He chose to leave them for a Spurs side who've had more than their fair share of ups and downs where he wouldn't be certain of first team football.

I don't see many English players in Chelseas reserves and even Wright Phillips proved most of us wrong by nailing down a first team place until and they changed managers.

The money might be good in their 2nd string but most of the England squad are playing every week.

[Hoop Blah]

Would they?

Who has, according to the information in the public domain, turned down Chelsea and their mega-money for first team football at their current club?

I can think of a fair few who haven't but none, off the top of my head, who've turned it down.

Bentley had an assured first team spot at Blackburn, a side pushing for Europe for the last couple of seasons. The team was almost built around him. He chose to leave them for a Spurs side who've had more than their fair share of ups and downs where he wouldn't be certain of first team football.

I don't see many English players in Chelseas reserves and even Wright Phillips proved most of us wrong by nailing down a first team place until and they changed managers.

The money might be good in their 2nd string but most of the England squad are playing every week.

Nailing down a first team place? He got a fair run in the side under Grant admittedly, but he hardly nailed down a first team place.

The fact that there are hardly any English players in their reserves is more down to the fact that they've not gone in for them because they can afford to go and try to buy the best in the world for a position, not just the best in the country.

Parker, Wright-Phillips, Sidwell, Ben-Haim and Diarra are all players that have gone there for the money and the chance of getting in the side instead of first team football elsewhere in the Premier League.

Who's turned them down, apart from Gerrard that is?

[papereyes]

most ambitious players would select first team football over the certainty of being a squad player at Chelsea.

I think this is the bit that is inherently wrong.

I think most players are, by the very fact that they've given up a lot to get where they are now, are both determined and ambitious, certainly compared to 99% of the population. So when a Top 4 club suggests that they might be good enough to play for them, I genuinely don't think much doubt enters their mind. They've been good enough so far, why shouldn't they be good enough again.

I think ambitious players would go to a club that is maybe a step above them because they've consistently pushed themselves so far and it is now the way they think.

[Woodcote Royal]

As I said ages ago, neither you or I know exactly which clubs are accepted or rejected by certain players just like neither you or I know what clubs Bentley accepted or rejected (I give one example and you choose not to believe him) but it really is nonsense to suggest that no players put regular first team football before joining a top 4 club.....................in Sidwell's case he either, over estimated his own ability or, was poorly advised.

[Woodcote Royal]

most ambitious players would select first team football over the certainty of being a squad player at Chelsea.

I think this is the bit that is inherently wrong.


I think ambitious players would go to a club that is maybe a step above them because they've consistently pushed themselves so far and it is now the way they think.

I don't disagree with this but a step above might be an Aston Villa or a Tottenham but not Chelsea, where the whole squad is way above Sidwell's league.

[papereyes]

most ambitious players would select first team football over the certainty of being a squad player at Chelsea.

I think this is the bit that is inherently wrong.


I think ambitious players would go to a club that is maybe a step above them because they've consistently pushed themselves so far and it is now the way they think.

I don't disagree with this but a step above might be an Aston Villa or a Tottenham but not Chelsea, where the whole squad is way above Sidwell's league.

Then the management wouldn't go for him. The fact that they did suggests that someone, other than himself, thought that he was good enough.

Its not like he left us, rocked up to Chelsea with his boots in a Tesco bag and asked for a trial, is it?

[Kevin Doyles Right Foot]

Would they?

Who has, according to the information in the public domain, turned down Chelsea and their mega-money for first team football at their current club?

I can think of a fair few who haven't but none, off the top of my head, who've turned it down.

Bentley had an assured first team spot at Blackburn, a side pushing for Europe for the last couple of seasons. The team was almost built around him. He chose to leave them for a Spurs side who've had more than their fair share of ups and downs where he wouldn't be certain of first team football.

james henry

[Ian Royal]

James Henry would have been lucky to see the reserves let alone a bench. I rather doubt he'd have been on much money either.

Stay at Reading and risk second season syndrome on £20k / week or go to Chelsea getting experience, playing the odd game, working with world class players and pretty much guaranteeing yourself a transfer to an established Premier League club on big wages at the end of it, whilst earning a ridiculous wage along the lines of £40 - £50k / week.

I know which I'd choose and I loath Chelsea and love Reading.