Fielding "weakened" teams in the FA Cup

[Royal Rother]

It's hard enough keeping fringe players motivated - if they don't even get an opportunity in Cup games the chances of them sticking around must be reduced, which would mean that the quality of the "players in waiting" would also, inevitably, reduce.

[Huntley & Palmer]

Meanwhile, some of us are just pleased that the club is keeping a firm grip on it's list of priorities.

Even if Burnley are promoted and we are not, a place in the Premiership will remain the real prize on our horizon as opposed to a cup we stand no chance of winning without a Premiership squad..........................

A prize so treasured that the club cocked up probably it's best chance of European football for the foreseeable? Come on, a club that talks about how much damage finishing in the UEFA spot would have done is simply worried about survival not ambition. That will be the survival that didn't happen the following season and did happen for Bolton. Yes the squad would have had to have been increased in size but surely this would have helped us in the long run, certainly in the respect of relying on players like Boris to play full Prem seasons.

Not bothering with the cup competitions smacks of the same lack of vision to supporters and I am glad that attendances for such matches are treated with almost the same level of irrelevance

[Dirk Gently]

Errrm. If/when we get the the Premier League, surely we don't seriously expect to win it while the Big4 exist??? So, using the same logic, will be be putting out weakened teams in that competition? Presumably not, as the struggle to stay in the Pl will always take precedence over everything, including cups as it did before.

So the sad message to all Reading supporters is that if we get promoted then the best we can hope for every season for the foreseeable future is to not be relegated. Never mind winning anything, that's not on the horizon - just not being relegated is everything. Hardly a rosy prospect for us to look forward to!

[Vision]

Errrm. If/when we get the the Premier League, surely we don't seriously expect to win it while the Big4 exist??? So, using the same logic, will be be putting out weakened teams in that competition? Presumably not, as the struggle to stay in the Pl will always take precedence over everything, including cups as it did before.

So the sad message to all Reading supporters is that if we get promoted then the best we can hope for every season for the foreseeable future is to not be relegated. Never mind winning anything, that's not on the horizon - just not being relegated is everything. Hardly a rosy prospect for us to look forward to!

Not just Reading supporters though is it?

Unless there's a drastic change in the structure and priority of English football then thats going to apply pretty much to all but the very biggest clubs.

That has been the case long before Steve Coppell started his cup selection policy.

[Terminal Boardom]

Unless there's a drastic change in the structure and priority of English football then thats going to apply pretty much to all but the very biggest clubs.

Ability is nothing without opportunity. If it is so clear cut that only the biggest of the big will win anything, why bother with football at all?

[Sun Tzu]

Unless there's a drastic change in the structure and priority of English football then thats going to apply pretty much to all but the very biggest clubs.

Ability is nothing without opportunity. If it is so clear cut that only the biggest of the big will win anything, why bother with football at all?

Because to anyone who's following of the game predates Soccer AM there are more prizes than the Premier League title or the Champions League ?

Historically only a relatively small number of clubs have won the top prizes in any era but that doesn't mean only the biggest win anything...

[Victor Meldrew]

VM - as long as Coppell is our manager, I think he will always see the cup games as opportunities to give fringe/squad/returning injured players a run out in a more competitive fixture than that offered by reserve team football, and therefore our hopes of the glory day out at Wembley will have to be put on hold until after he leaves the club.

I say that not as a criticism of Coppell, merely an observation.

Just out of interest Palace played in an FA Cup final the very next year after getting promoted under Coppell in 1989.
That cup run (full side) led to a 3rd position in the top league the following season so the cup run and final obviously did more good than bad.Presumably his phiosophy was to play his strongest side in every game and IIRC there were at least 2 extra league games to be played then if not 4.
Also in 1991 they still found time to win the Zenith Data Systems Cup and once again he put out his strongest side to beat Everton.
Not sure what he did at Brentford and Brighton.
I wonder what caused our manager to fall out of love with cup competitions.

[brendywendy]

VM - as long as Coppell is our manager, I think he will always see the cup games as opportunities to give fringe/squad/returning injured players a run out in a more competitive fixture than that offered by reserve team football, and therefore our hopes of the glory day out at Wembley will have to be put on hold until after he leaves the club.

I say that not as a criticism of Coppell, merely an observation.

Just out of interest Palace played in an FA Cup final the very next year after getting promoted under Coppell in 1989.
That cup run (full side) led to a 3rd position in the top league the following season so the cup run and final obviously did more good than bad.Presumably his phiosophy was to play his strongest side in every game and IIRC there were at least 2 extra league games to be played then if not 4.
Also in 1991 they still found time to win the Zenith Data Systems Cup and once again he put out his strongest side to beat Everton.
Not sure what he did at Brentford and Brighton.
I wonder what caused our manager to fall out of love with cup competitions.

its not what coppell has done or anything of the sort
the game has changed, the finances involved, and the devaluing of the cup for years, with smaller gates, reserve teams, and not playing at all.
coppell just responds to this and gets volleys for it

the world ws a different place when he had the run with palace in the cup, and so was football

[Thaumagurist*]

VM - as long as Coppell is our manager, I think he will always see the cup games as opportunities to give fringe/squad/returning injured players a run out in a more competitive fixture than that offered by reserve team football, and therefore our hopes of the glory day out at Wembley will have to be put on hold until after he leaves the club.

I say that not as a criticism of Coppell, merely an observation.

Just out of interest Palace played in an FA Cup final the very next year after getting promoted under Coppell in 1989.
That cup run (full side) led to a 3rd position in the top league the following season so the cup run and final obviously did more good than bad.Presumably his phiosophy was to play his strongest side in every game and IIRC there were at least 2 extra league games to be played then if not 4.
Also in 1991 they still found time to win the Zenith Data Systems Cup and once again he put out his strongest side to beat Everton.
Not sure what he did at Brentford and Brighton.
I wonder what caused our manager to fall out of love with cup competitions.

Football was different back then. We didn't have much of Sports Science philosophy then.

[eleventh earl of mar]

VM - as long as Coppell is our manager, I think he will always see the cup games as opportunities to give fringe/squad/returning injured players a run out in a more competitive fixture than that offered by reserve team football, and therefore our hopes of the glory day out at Wembley will have to be put on hold until after he leaves the club.

I say that not as a criticism of Coppell, merely an observation.

Just out of interest Palace played in an FA Cup final the very next year after getting promoted under Coppell in 1989.
That cup run (full side) led to a 3rd position in the top league the following season so the cup run and final obviously did more good than bad.Presumably his phiosophy was to play his strongest side in every game and IIRC there were at least 2 extra league games to be played then if not 4.
Also in 1991 they still found time to win the Zenith Data Systems Cup and once again he put out his strongest side to beat Everton.
Not sure what he did at Brentford and Brighton.
I wonder what caused our manager to fall out of love with cup competitions.

Football was different back then. We didn't have much of Sports Science philosophy then.

Exactly. It was about playing your strongest team and trying to win every game you played. Simple wasn't it?

[Sun Tzu]

Although how do you explain the number of 'odd' results that used to crop up in the holiday games. Teams winning by a hatful one day and losing to the same team by a hatful the next day.
Resting players ? Not trying ? Chance to earn a little bonus ?

[Vision]

Unless there's a drastic change in the structure and priority of English football then thats going to apply pretty much to all but the very biggest clubs.

Ability is nothing without opportunity. If it is so clear cut that only the biggest of the big will win anything, why bother with football at all?

The fact that is that with the odd exception (there always is of course) the biggest (see richest) do win everything.

The other problem is that the idea of what constitutes "success" has changed. The race to secure the Murdoch millions has become the be-all and end all for most (including us). Likewise for the very biggest its the lure of the Champions league millions.
End of the day Arsenal could win the FA cup yet their season would be considered a disaster if they finished 5th in the league.

I'm not saying i particularly like any of it , i dont really but to suggest Steve Coppell's team selections devalue the FA cup which is the basis of this thread is not something i subscribe to. The juggernaut of Sky, the Premier League and the Champions League (European Super League in all but name) have changed the priorities, expectations and aspirations of everyone.

[Arch]

Errrm. If/when we get the the Premier League, surely we don't seriously expect to win it while the Big4 exist??? So, using the same logic, will be be putting out weakened teams in that competition? Presumably not, as the struggle to stay in the Pl will always take precedence over everything, including cups as it did before.

So the sad message to all Reading supporters is that if we get promoted then the best we can hope for every season for the foreseeable future is to not be relegated. Never mind winning anything, that's not on the horizon - just not being relegated is everything. Hardly a rosy prospect for us to look forward to!

That wouldn't be the same logic at all. The FA Cup game aren't being totally disregarded, but are being used to develop players and combinations that we may need to call on in the future. It's a much more useful competition for that than the reserve league. How would that logic apply to playing in the Premiership where the goal is survival?

[Royal Rother]

It would be great if we did go on an extended Cup run but to be honest the whole competition really doesn't mean much to me these days. Not sure if I've even watched the last couple of finals, and certainly haven't bothered with the semi finals.

I don't think the fact that clubs field weakened teams has anything much to do with my apathy, it's just a symptom of the wider truth - football has moved on. The FA Cup is a bit of a diversion these days, not an entirely unwelcome one, but not a particularly interesting one at that.

[Gordons Cumming]

Champions league football, for instance, is no match to the drama that the FA Cup can muster.

Winning the FA CUp, as a supporter, would be better than finishing 4th in the Premiership. Where is the fun in that?

[Vision]

Champions league football, for instance, is no match to the drama that the FA Cup can muster.

Winning the FA CUp, as a supporter, would be better than finishing 4th in the Premiership. Where is the fun in that?

I'm afraid wealthy owners and chairman won't agree with and hence managers wont either. As for fans well i guess that depends on who you support but if you asked fans of clubs challenging in the top 4 or 5 i'd be fairly sure that a fair chunk (if not more than half) would put the FA cup as 3rd on their list of priorities.

[Woodcote Royal]

Errrm. If/when we get the the Premier League, surely we don't seriously expect to win it while the Big4 exist??? So, using the same logic, will be be putting out weakened teams in that competition? Presumably not, as the struggle to stay in the Pl will always take precedence over everything, including cups as it did before.

So the sad message to all Reading supporters is that if we get promoted then the best we can hope for every season for the foreseeable future is to not be relegated. Never mind winning anything, that's not on the horizon - just not being relegated is everything. Hardly a rosy prospect for us to look forward to!

No.

The message to Reading supporters, especially those who should know better, is wake up and smell the coffee.

Going right back to the 60's there has always been a handful of clubs who were going to share out most of the spoils at the end of the season. In fact, for much of the 90's it was a big 2 and the current quartet is a welcome change from just Man U and Arsenal.

I don't know were you've been for the last 20 years but reaching the Premiership has been the long term aim ever since the current Chairman walked through the door.

Sadly, it seems that for some of our fans having been there is sufficient and another 130 years of abject failure is OK by them provided they get a nice away day and a right royal stuffing from one of the big boys, hopefully, once a season.

Serious mistakes were made last season but our 8th place in 2006-7, with a team that cost peanuts, showed that we have what it takes to become an established Premiership side and only those with Schards sized blinkers can fail to see the huge crowd pulling potential of our massive catchment area.

Furthermore, and as I tried to point out earlier, standing still is not option because we stand no chance of keeping what we've got once the parachute payments run out.

We have to 2 shots at promotion before being forced to return to the kind of team that will not impress even our least ambitious of fans.

Would you rather we played our first team in the cup and our cup team became our first team in 12 months time

Perhaps we should give Parky a call and ask if Charlton would like to swap places with us now. If that's where we'd like to be, why wait

[eleventh earl of mar]

Perhaps we should give Parky a call and ask if Charlton would like to swap places with us now. If that's where we'd like to be, why wait

Be fair, they have won the FA Cup, even with a record score!!

[Woodcote Royal]

And they wouldn't need asking twice to swap places with us.

[Victor Meldrew]

Until reading on this I really didn't think that football had changed so much in just 18 years-I still don't and believe that the hype of the game that was suddenly invented with the advent of The Premiership has got to some of you.
You would think we were talking about 1890 rather than 1990 to listen to some of you.
As for sports science do you not remember that our fttest player delights in fry-ups on a regular basis?

I just think that changing teams when not necessary is a dangerous thing-ask Benitez as he now has finally come to terms with the idea that playing your first team and winning regularly has a confidence boosting effect on players who in turn don't feel tired.
If those of you think that resting players is such a good thing I look forward to the 6-0 thrashing of a generally unrested Watford on Friday.