The deluded Irish

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floyd__streete
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The deluded Irish

by floyd__streete » 13 Oct 2009 00:04

Spent the weekend in Dublin with the missis, a surprise early birthday trip from her best mate who treated us to a 5 star hotel, flights n'all. A smashing city, bloody expensive mind, wonderfully friendly people and we managed to see all the sights.

As we were in the capital for the biggest game in Irish international football since the 2002 World Cup, we made an effort to watch the big qualifier in Temple Bar. I am no lover of Italian football in the least; cynical and pedestrian paced, I wanted the Irish to do them especially as there are so many links to RFC.

I thought that the Ireland performance was excellent. They came so close to a win but no team in the world would ever realistically expect that they should beat Italy; for all my dislike of their antics, the Italians from 1-11 are all comfortable on the ball and are always a fearsome side. A point was they very least that Ireland deserved, it was a travesty to concede so late thanks to John O'Shea (inplausibly voted man of the match by Jim Beglin on RTE when St Ledger was the class act at the back; typical media bias towards Manchester United) being caught out of position so far up the field when a goal lead was there to be defended.

The deflation at the end was obvious and understandable to an extent, but even if the Irish had won the game Italy were surely certs to beat Cyprus (albeit an improving Cyprus) in the final qualifier and take that last automatic qualifying position. For a country with a population several times fewer than one of the most successful nations in world football to take the automatic qualification place so close to the wire is no mean achievement and it should not be forgotten that Ireland are unbeaten in the campaign. Their energy and commitment - reflected by their genius of a coach who has an impeccable CV - is almost enough to overcome their obvious flaws (failure to retain possession at crucial times, a midfield full of honest plodders like Keith Andrews; Andy Reid is the saviour according to the Irish media :roll: ). You'd have thought that the players and management would be national heroes.

Apparently not so, because the media reaction which followed was, to me, extraordinary and made the ever-dislikeable sports media in England look timid. A general air of disatisfaction firstly in the papers, I then watched the Irish version of Setanta on the Sunday morning and Pat Dolan (Brother of the affable Eamonn Dolan of course) who clearly fancies himself as the new Eamon Dunphy (another cantankerous prat who doesn't seem to live in the real world) was almost apoplectic about the Trapattoni regime, seemingly expecting the Irish players (many of whom are of Championship standard) to be capable of defeating the likes of Italy. I really do not know what the Irish expect of their national team; I would imagine that Northern Ireland and the Scots would bite their arms off for Ireland's play-off place. I hope that Trapattoni and Ireland go on to qualify and stick it to the likes of Pat Dolan, Dunphy and Johnny Giles.

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Re: The deluded Irish

by Royalee » 13 Oct 2009 01:25

The Irish team aren't what they used to be - maybe their media should realise it. They've gone from Roy Keane to Keith Andrews, Ray Houghton (not the one with the beer gut at Elm Park, the good one) to Stephen Hunt and Paul McGrath to Paul McShane since '94, perhaps their finest hour. You're quite right floyd, most of their players are pretty average and Trap's done a brilliant job.

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Re: The deluded Irish

by Alan Partridge » 13 Oct 2009 10:09

I think it's the same with most of the home nations to be honest. Under Sven England always qualified, always did reasonably well without being brilliant but that wasn't enough. Ireland you have mentioned gr8 m8, Wales are another one whose fans and media just have far too high expectations when they have named players from Blue Square Premier in their squad in the past. League 1 players and Simon Church get a start for them.

I think Scotland have a better team now than they were a few years ago through the Vogts regime, Walter Smith and McLeish got them playing in a way that suited their players, Burley hasn't done quite as well. Scotland have been reliant on a few players coming towards the end of their time now so in Burley's defense he's having to try and replace the Barry Ferguson's and David Weir's, also not helped by pricks like McGregor and Boyd throwing their toys out the pram. They were rightly angry at the way they lost to Norway but i think on the whole there is a sense of realism about what they are, Northern Ireland are the ones though that just accept what they are, everyone pulls in the right direction and they've made great strides in the last few years, ever since Lawrie Sanchez went in there.

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Re: The deluded Irish

by Tony Le Mesmer » 13 Oct 2009 11:52

Royalee The Irish team aren't what they used to be


Im not quite sure they used to 'be' a team?

Their entire international pedegree seems to be based around one great win over Italy 15 years ago and a jammy win v England over 20 years ago. I cant think of much else.

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Re: The deluded Irish

by Thaumagurist* » 13 Oct 2009 11:56

I think their best WC performance was Italia '90, when they got to the QF.


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Re: The deluded Irish

by Starfish » 13 Oct 2009 12:09

Tony Le Mesmer
Royalee The Irish team aren't what they used to be


Im not quite sure they used to 'be' a team?

Their entire international pedegree seems to be based around one great win over Italy 15 years ago and a jammy win v England over 20 years ago. I cant think of much else.


I agree completely with floyd. I watched the interviews with Dunphy et al. after the game and simply grew gradually angrier and angrier with the man (S.Hunt called him a 'skinny little rat' in an interview this week, I read today). I thought it was easily our best performance in qualifying so far and although one would have to accept that the Italians would probably have won 'if they had had to', I was still happier (although obviously disappointed by the late goal) than I have been after an Irish game for some time.

The 'pedigree' as such (I would never have used the word) is based on the fact that Ireland were once a very difficult side to beat. From 1987 - 2002 (some of the group games for the WC 1998 aside) Ireland were a decent side. That's it really. Making it to Japan/Korea (having had Portugal & The Netherlands in our group) and then getting to within a penalty shoot-out against Spain of the Q-Fs (without Roy Keane, of course) is probably as good as example as to what 'pedigree' we have. Not spectacular and not quite having what it takes to go further ... but causing a lot of good sides a lot of problems.

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Re: The deluded Irish

by Tony Le Mesmer » 13 Oct 2009 12:24

Thaumagurist* I think their best WC performance was Italia '90, when they got to the QF.


This will be the Italia 90 where they registered 4 draws and 1 loss in 5 games?

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Re: The deluded Irish

by No Fixed Abode » 13 Oct 2009 12:38

Just a big LOL at supporting the Irish really. Lots here in NY. Love it when England lose, even more so than Ireland winning.

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Re: The deluded Irish

by Starfish » 13 Oct 2009 13:24

Tony Le Mesmer
Thaumagurist* I think their best WC performance was Italia '90, when they got to the QF.


This will be the Italia 90 where they registered 4 draws and 1 loss in 5 games?


An 'achievement' you will notice I did not mention in my post above.


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Re: The deluded Irish

by FiNeRaIn » 13 Oct 2009 13:35

No Fixed Abode Just a big LOL at supporting the Irish really. Lots here in NY. Love it when England lose, even more so than Ireland winning.


American irish are the worst, very confused people. They believe because they have an 8th cousin from dublin they should paint their faces green and chant IRA songs. Pretty cringe worthy. Normal irish fans from ireland are fine - nice people who don't have anything to prove. I was on facebook chat to a girl from dublin I met in aus last night - they all type funny though. " what ya been upto daar keed, been langers?" im like what? lol.

Ireland have a few decent players, they are a team that should be pushing for qualification but never expected to win groups. They are capable of giving teams a fright with hard work and determination but they lack the quality to really make a push. 2-2 against italty before kick off would have been a good result.

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Re: The deluded Irish

by Thaumagurist* » 13 Oct 2009 13:59

"langers" is Irish for pisshead, apparently.

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Re: The deluded Irish

by Starfish » 13 Oct 2009 14:12

Thaumagurist* "langers" is Irish for pisshead, apparently.


It means 'pissed'.

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Re: The deluded Irish

by LUX » 13 Oct 2009 14:31

good post Floyd, as per bloody usual :wink:


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Re: The deluded Irish

by Wycombe Royal » 13 Oct 2009 15:14

I'm just wondering if Finerain can ever posting something to do with the Irish or the Old Firm without mentioning the IRA or sectarianism.

It appears not.

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Re: The deluded Irish

by FiNeRaIn » 13 Oct 2009 15:25

Wycombe Royal I'm just wondering if Finerain can ever posting something to do with the Irish or the Old Firm without mentioning the IRA or sectarianism.

It appears not.


Brilliant, thanks for clearing that up. Will keep your comments in mind.

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Re: The deluded Irish

by Victor Meldrew » 13 Oct 2009 15:27

Wycombe Royal I'm just wondering if Finerain can ever posting something to do with the Irish or the Old Firm without mentioning the IRA or sectarianism.

It appears not.


As a by-the-way I heard the other day that the real reason why Ireland's potentially best player,Stephen Ireland, doesn't play is because he is a Protestant and he couldn't take the Catholics both on and off the pitch having a go at him..
Anybody know if that is the case?

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Re: The deluded Irish

by Gus the teenage cow » 13 Oct 2009 15:27

although dunphy went over the top a lot of what he said was correct, trapatonni has us playing very negatively and defensively which is not really our way although it gets results so you might say the end justifies the means

also a lot of english posters don't rate Ireland, it's no surprise to me, i was having the same debates with the english rugby fans in General Sport for years and even now when irish club and country are european champions and have dished out plenty of hammerings to england club and country in recent years there is still little acknowledgment for their quality, it's a kind of old empire mentality and it fails to recognise that although the irish side LACKS DEPTH, a first choice first 11 has a lot of quality and is FAR MORE THAN A BUNCH OF HONEST CLOGGERS

although neither analysis are correct i would much prefer dunphy's lambasting the team for drawing with the world champions twice (i.e. expecting us to be world-beaters playing silky football all the time) than the patronising attitude often adopted by the english media (again going to rugby, the number of times i have heard english media describing munster rugby team as "passionate" and "playing above themselves, driven on by the crowd" is unreal, there is a lack of respect for the TALENTS OF THE PLAYERS, IT'S AS IF ENGLISH MEDIA CANNOT ACKNOWLEDGE A LITTLE OLD IRISH PROVINCE HAS BASICALLY DOMINATED EUROPEAN RUGBY FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS SO THEY MUST FIND SOME WAY TO EXPLAIN IT, IT CAN'T BE THEIR QUALITY, THOSE LITTLE PROVINCIAL PEASANTS CAN'T BE BETTER THAN US, CAN THEY, CAN THEY???)

i'll explain why we would expect a lot from MY first choice irish 11

goalkeeper: given (one of the best keepers in the world)
rb: steve finnan (quality with liverpool for years, back to fitness now, plays his first game for pompey and guess what-they get their first win)
cb: richard dunne (consistently good in the best league in the world for the last 5-6years)
cb: sean st. ledger (promising young player)
lb: john o'shea (fullback for one of the best club sides in the world)
rm: damien duff (when fit, is truly class, getting back on form with Fulham)
cm: stephen reid ( a real class act, just back from injury, if he stays fit for a season, he'll play for a top 4 side)
cm: stephen ireland ( has mental issues but is quality and i'd make real efforts to coax him back, stands out in a team of world stars at citeh)
lm: aiden mcgeady (the guy is world class and has every trick in the book, watching him in both celtic legs against arsenal, he never lost the ball, looked the only player from celtic capable of playing for arsenal, also ran zambrotta ragged the other night)
cf: robbie keane (has kept england striker defoe out of the team at spurs, 40 international goals now and surely will surpass the english record for international goals of 49 shortly)
cf: kevin doyle ( a good all-round striker, comfortable at international level and should be playing for a better side than wolves)

if these guys were from some small yugoslav republic or had ivic or inho at the end of their names they'd be viewed in a completely different light, so carry on with your patronising disregard, really i expect nothing less, all i will say is our side is better than what you think

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Re: The deluded Irish

by FiNeRaIn » 13 Oct 2009 15:36

How many rugby world cup finals have Ireland been in? The reason the media don't rate you is you never turn up in finals - england have got to two world cups. One when we were by far the best team in the world, the second when we were rubbish but had the passion and determination to get there. Ireland haven't proven themselves on the big stage. Club level doesn't mean a lot really , due to the impact of foreigners.

Your posts have been pretty decent recently but I cannot agree on that team. Mcgeady world class? haha!!! He's got a few tricks but can never deliver a final ball or score enough goals, wouldn;t get into the likes of villa, tottenham,etc Nevermind world class. Not because He plays for celtic, he is just simply one of the most overrated players in recent times. Never looked likely to score against arsenal or even create. Stephen reid, done OK at blackburn, found his level - talks of top 4..laughable. Best players are robbie keane, ireland and given. Those guys are european standard players who have the consistent quality and end product for their positions. Given should have played at a higher level.

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Re: The deluded Irish

by Alan Partridge » 13 Oct 2009 15:39

To say McGeady is world class is absolutely ridiculous. His final ball is worse than Stephen Hunt's, who can also get in the squad.

Ireland have 3 or 4 very good players. R Keane, Given, I've always rated Richard Dunne and Stephen Ireland, oh and he doesn't want to play for his country.

The rest are very much average for that level or not even Irish anyway. Kevin Kilbane gets his 100th cap on wednesday and that sort of sums it all up.

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Re: The deluded Irish

by Starfish » 13 Oct 2009 15:52

gttc the optimist. The midfield of Duff, Ireland, Reid & McGeady looks nice but I have no idea which one of them is going to win the ball consistently for us. I am afraid I have to agree with the McGeady-chorus - he has done precious little (yet) to show that he is good enough to play for anyone other than who he is currently playing for. And Andy Reid playing for a top 4 side is something I will not hold my breath waiting for (although I do like him).

Again, it's a nice attacking side you've built gus, but one that might lose in Cyprus.

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