WHO IS TO BLAME?

[Schards#2]

Having thought a lot about this, it is very difficult to see what a club like Reading should do if they make the Premiership.

Without a chairman prepared to bankroll the club, you have the option of either trying to compete financially and gamble the future of the club on staying there, or infamously "cutting your cloth". Players demand higher wages, if they don't get them they either down tools a la S Hunt or get sold. Players that can make a difference cost huge sums and vast wages. We went for the second option and it's been a disaster, the alternative could (would?) have resulted in administration a la Leeds/Southampton and which is clearly going to happen to Hull if they go down.

Is it fair to demand that the chairman throw millions at the club? IMHO, no, unless he's blocking someone who would do from having the job, which I see no evidence of. He's made it clear that he wants to sell and has the club on the market, again, is it fair for him to be forced to sell his asset for less than he values it? No. You might not like it but Madejski is under no obligation to do anything unless someone is prepared to stump up the money neccessary. In the meantime his loss of interest will clearly harm the club but in the absence of anyone else, he has no obligation to spend vast sums on something he's no longe motivated by.

As for managers, we had one who performed the footbaling equivalent of a miracle for two years, nearly three. After that, it becomes impossible as the squad is full of highly paid players who don't want to be here and perform accordingly. This happens to any side that gets relegated and relegation is, sooner or later, inevitable, withouth a huge turnover or generous benefactor, neither of which we have.

In these circumstances, I would ask the question "what should anyone have done differently that could have changed the outcome?" Yes, Rodgers was a bad choice and did a poor job but even the best choice imaginable would struggle to better mid table. Yes, Madejski should have made a small investment to stave off relegation but, in reality, that would have only staved this situation off in the short term.


With hindsight , in the absense of said rich benefactor, this has been inevitable since we got promoted....sooner or later.

[Arch]

Any chance of holding the players just a bit accountable? It is failing at football we're talking about, after all.

'Greed. The blame must lie at the feets of Kebe, Hunt et al for the failure to get promoted last season.

Your thought processes really are ridiculously simplistic sometimes mate. Could it be that the players possibly played to their full potential but actually just weren't good enough? Or could it be that the manager played perfectly adequate players but utilised a formation or tactical system that didn't work? Or could it be the Director of Football's fault for not going out and buying players identified as being able to infuse better quality into the team? Or could it be the Chairman and Board's fault for saying no to the question of possibly buying a better quality player? As I said before, the blame lies collectively at the player's, previous two manager's, DoF, BoD, and Chairman's feet.

I hope it's not my thought processes you're impugning. I only meant to suggest that the players had been left out of the account. Of course, it's possible that it's not their fault they're shit, but when the same team that beats Liverpool rolls over at home against Fulham, or the same team that comfortably dispatches Brum then fails to go toe to toe to them in the one game that matters, or even the team that runs Bristol City ragged doesn't even whimper against Plymouth.... er, where was I?

[winchester_royal]

Any chance of holding the players just a bit accountable? It is failing at football we're talking about, after all.

'Greed. The blame must lie at the feets of Kebe, Hunt et al for the failure to get promoted last season.

Your thought processes really are ridiculously simplistic sometimes mate. Could it be that the players possibly played to their full potential but actually just weren't good enough? Or could it be that the manager played perfectly adequate players but utilised a formation or tactical system that didn't work? Or could it be the Director of Football's fault for not going out and buying players identified as being able to infuse better quality into the team? Or could it be the Chairman and Board's fault for saying no to the question of possibly buying a better quality player? As I said before, the blame lies collectively at the player's, previous two manager's, DoF, BoD, and Chairman's feet.

Did our tactics/selection massively change after the Wolves game in January? No.

Did we sell any players in January? No

So, how is it then that our home form was so poor from then on. Who's to blame for the passionless, timid performances we saw against Brizzle, Forest and Charlton?

The teams put out on those occasions were easily good enough to emerge with a greater total than 1 point. They proved that earlier in the season. Most of the players had proven it in the season leading up to last. We had players like Doyle, Hunt, Harper, and Bikey all playing in a known, comfortable formation. There was no excuse for the failure to win any home games in those last 3 months.

My thought processes may be 'simplistic' but I am yet to see a compelling argument that lays the blame elsewhere for last season's failures.

[Big Foot]

Having thought a lot about this, it is very difficult to see what a club like Reading should do if they make the Premiership.

Without a chairman prepared to bankroll the club, you have the option of either trying to compete financially and gamble the future of the club on staying there, or infamously "cutting your cloth". Players demand higher wages, if they don't get them they either down tools a la S Hunt or get sold. Players that can make a difference cost huge sums and vast wages. We went for the second option and it's been a disaster, the alternative could (would?) have resulted in administration a la Leeds/Southampton and which is clearly going to happen to Hull if they go down.

Is it fair to demand that the chairman throw millions at the club? IMHO, no, unless he's blocking someone who would do from having the job, which I see no evidence of. He's made it clear that he wants to sell and has the club on the market, again, is it fair for him to be forced to sell his asset for less than he values it? No. You might not like it but Madejski is under no obligation to do anything unless someone is prepared to stump up the money neccessary. In the meantime his loss of interest will clearly harm the club but in the absence of anyone else, he has no obligation to spend vast sums on something he's no longe motivated by.

As for managers, we had one who performed the footbaling equivalent of a miracle for two years, nearly three. After that, it becomes impossible as the squad is full of highly paid players who don't want to be here and perform accordingly. This happens to any side that gets relegated and relegation is, sooner or later, inevitable, withouth a huge turnover or generous benefactor, neither of which we have.

In these circumstances, I would ask the question "what should anyone have done differently that could have changed the outcome?" Yes, Rodgers was a bad choice and did a poor job but even the best choice imaginable would struggle to better mid table. Yes, Madejski should have made a small investment to stave off relegation but, in reality, that would have only staved this situation off in the short term.


With hindsight , in the absense of said rich benefactor, this has been inevitable since we got promoted....sooner or later.

How have other clubs such as West Brom managed to remain competitive post relegation despite having no rich benefactor? They've invested money from player sales and parachute payments. Something we clearly failed to do.

[Schards#2]

Without looking to check, West Brom must have either been in the prem or in the process of getting promoted for a good 8 of the last ten seasons. They are not a club like Reading, they have a history in the top flight whereas Reading's brief dalliance was a one off.

Clubs similar to Reading in Premiership terms are more Bradford, Swindon, Hull, Barnsley, Watford.

Without a rich benefactor, it is virtually impossible to sustain premiership football at clubs such as these and, when it ends, I for one can't think of how you avoid it becoming a whole lot worse over the next few seasons. Whatever you do seems to spell failure.

[PEARCEY]

Any chance of holding the players just a bit accountable? It is failing at football we're talking about, after all.

'Greed. The blame must lie at the feets of Kebe, Hunt et al for the failure to get promoted last season.

At last, a plural for "feet".

He may have been better of saying "feats". I dunno the yoof of today.

[Gav]

I blame Peter Maté

[Big Foot]

Without looking to check, West Brom must have either been in the prem or in the process of getting promoted for a good 8 of the last ten seasons. They are not a club like Reading, they have a history in the top flight whereas Reading's brief dalliance was a one off.

Clubs similar to Reading in Premiership terms are more Bradford, Swindon, Hull, Barnsley, Watford.

Without a rich benefactor, it is virtually impossible to sustain premiership football at clubs such as these and, when it ends, I for one can't think of how you avoid it becoming a whole lot worse over the next few seasons. Whatever you do seems to spell failure.

Taking that into consideration, do we want to be promoted again to go through the inevitable heartache until a rich benefactor bails us out? Or shall we sit pretty, happy with our slide to league 1 and football devoid of any spirit or quality?

[Maguire]

I'm assuming you are asking who is to blame for our possible relegation this season then, in which case the answer is quite clearly Rodgers currently.

Not really "clearly", is it? He didn't sell off or loan out every player of any value in the squad, did he?

All this could've been avoided if we'd gone up again last season. And there's not a single good excuse why that didn't happen. We were utter shit for all of 2009 and the likes of Coppell and players like Stephen Hunt need to have a long hard look at themselves.

[Schards#2]

If I was pushed, for relegation, I would say the players who failed to give 100% - just compare the performances of Doyle, Bikey and, especially, S Hunt this year compared to last.

For this season, Rodgers, predominantly for pissing our limited transfer budget up the wall on defenders he doesn't play whilst leaving us with nigh on sod all up front. But it's pretty much the difference between 21st and 16th IMHO. The lack of investment is the overriding problem.

[PEARCEY]

I'm assuming you are asking who is to blame for our possible relegation this season then, in which case the answer is quite clearly Rodgers currently.

Not really "clearly", is it? He didn't sell off or loan out every player of any value in the squad, did he?

All this could've been avoided if we'd gone up again last season. And there's not a single good excuse why that didn't happen. We were utter shit for all of 2009 and the likes of Coppell and players like Stephen Hunt need to have a long hard look at themselves.

Perhaps Mags. Or maybe we had grown too accustomed to Coppell performing miracles with a squad that wasn't as good as we all thought. After all how good are the likes of Stephen Hunt?(struggling to make an impact at Hull City) or Dave Kitson?(failure at Stoke) or Ibrahima Sonko?(ditto Kitson) or Nicky Shorey?(failure at Villa) or Genn Little?(failure at Pompey). Then there are others like James Harper(not wanted by a Premiership club this season) and Leroy Lita(ditto Harper).
Andre Bikey is doing pretty well but only at a lesser Premiership club.(ditto Doyle).

So all in all should we really have expected to go up last season? Did this group of players simply over-achieve for two years as a collective? I think so because as individuals most have made little impact at other clubs since leaving Reading.So to blame Coppell and the players may be unfair if they simply couldn't match levels they surprisingly reached in 2006.

[Berry]

Something Hammond does need to be held accountable for is how we managed to release Charlie Austin from the academy whilst Hammond was "Academy Director". 46 goals in 46 games for Poole Town earnt him a move to Swindon where he's on 6 goals in 6 games there.

Yet he was on our books, why did we miss out on him?

The biggest miss we will have for many a year is a player called Alex Henshall, he came into the Academy on trial last year as an U14, he had a six week trial but for some unknown reason due to a communication breakdown between staff he was released, he was supposed to of been offered a further trial, anyway the lad was from Swindon and they didnt mess about and got him in and signed up straight away, he is now in Swindons U17s and has England caps, I watched him in a FA Youth Cup game and believe me he is the fastest left winger I have ever seen, he kind of floats over the ground he is that quick, he is mentioned in same breath as Aarron Lennon, someone made a big Fcuk up at Reading and with Charlie Austin we have lost 2 genuine first teamers

[Sir Rodger Doyle]

The man in charge of managing the club as a whole.

[Maguire]

If I was pushed, for relegation, I would say the players who failed to give 100% - just compare the performances of Doyle, Bikey and, especially, S Hunt this year compared to last.

For this season, Rodgers, predominantly for pissing our limited transfer budget up the wall on defenders he doesn't play whilst leaving us with nigh on sod all up front. But it's pretty much the difference between 21st and 16th IMHO. The lack of investment is the overriding problem.

It's fair comment. Personally i'm taking the long view, which is that this season is a direct result of last season's failure to attain promotion. And whilst yes, I do think Rodgers could have done better, our poor squad is largely due to the previous season's capitulation and the subsequent flogging off of assets.

Pearcey - i'm hardly an optimist but I thought we were nailed on for promotion this time last year. Absolutely good enough, and I still can't believe how they managed to throw it away so badly. I mean, we didn't win at home from Jan to the end of the season but still had a chance of automatic on the last game of the season. How does a player as good as Doyle score so few goals? How does Hunt not get in the team (when he seems to play in the Prem every week now).

[PEARCEY]

If I was pushed, for relegation, I would say the players who failed to give 100% - just compare the performances of Doyle, Bikey and, especially, S Hunt this year compared to last.

For this season, Rodgers, predominantly for pissing our limited transfer budget up the wall on defenders he doesn't play whilst leaving us with nigh on sod all up front. But it's pretty much the difference between 21st and 16th IMHO. The lack of investment is the overriding problem.

It's fair comment. Personally i'm taking the long view, which is that this season is a direct result of last season's failure to attain promotion. And whilst yes, I do think Rodgers could have done better, our poor squad is largely due to the previous season's capitulation and the subsequent flogging off of assets.

Pearcey - i'm hardly an optimist but I thought we were nailed on for promotion this time last year. Absolutely good enough, and I still can't believe how they managed to throw it away so badly. I mean, we didn't win at home from Jan to the end of the season but still had a chance of automatic on the last game of the season. How does a player as good as Doyle score so few goals? How does Hunt not get in the team (when he seems to play in the Prem every week now).

Fwiw I thought we were nailed on certs to win promotion too. I just don't they they were as good as we all thought once Coppell's motivational skills started to lessen.

[Ian Royal]

I'm assuming you are asking who is to blame for our possible relegation this season then, in which case the answer is quite clearly Rodgers currently.

Not really "clearly", is it? He didn't sell off or loan out every player of any value in the squad, did he?

All this could've been avoided if we'd gone up again last season. And there's not a single good excuse why that didn't happen. We were utter shit for all of 2009 and the likes of Coppell and players like Stephen Hunt need to have a long hard look at themselves.

I'm answering who is resposible for our current problems involving relegation this season.
Rodgers started with a squad capable of mid-table without too much difficulty and ended with a squad that should have been capable of mid-table.

He made many many mistakes, ergo our current plight is his responsibility. Last season has very little to do with this season in that respect.

If you want it more in depth than that, then I need multiple options, which isn't clearly isn't what this thread is about. It's about picking one person you think has most responsibility for NOW.

He DID sell off or loan out close to half the players who are no longer with us this season. Not all I grant you, but he was in charge for plenty of the outgoings.

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

The players who Coppell rewarded let us down.

Some of those players bottled it. Hunt, Shorey, Kitson, Lita, Harper. Harsh to single them out but they were not a shadow of themselves second season in the Prem.

[Royal Lady]

Well, I'm still wondering why we put £17 million into a hotel extension when we could have spent it on players or the wages of players we currently had - it just doesn't sit easy with me. Someone has to take the blame - I'm leaning towards Mr Mad I'm afraid - I think he was blinded by his money-saving tactics and wasn't looking at the bigger picture. I see no reason why this club shouldn't be an ever-present in the Championship, at least, with occasional play-off games/cup runs to keep us interested. But the way things are going, we'll be Division 1 and struggling to get out if we go down. I doubt I'll see us in the Prem again now, but at least we saw it for two seasons, which is better than nothing - otherwise we'd all be speculating and now we know that, financially for us, it just isn't worth it.

[Ian Royal]

The players who Coppell rewarded let us down.

Some of those players bottled it. Hunt, Shorey, Kitson, Lita, Harper. Harsh to single them out but they were not a shadow of themselves second season in the Prem.

Harsh on Kitson seeing as he spent most of the first season on the injury table, didn't score a goal and was out top scorer in the second season.

Kitson was stuffed by multiple serious injuries in his career and playing in a team towards the end of that last season that couldn't create anything to save it's life.

Harsh on Harps as well. He carried our midfield in the second season, scoring a fair few goals for a defensive player. He just had no one even remotely good enough next to him and no right winger all season.
And how you can miss out Doyle, who scored a measely 6 or so goals is beyond me. And then of course there are Sonko and Ivar. Although Sonko has the injury excuse too. Rosenior was dump and failed to live up to his hype. Murty most of the season injured.

Basically the only players with any credit from that season were: Hahnemann & Harper and Kitson and Hunt for half a season each.

In my opinion anyway.

[Royal Lady]

The players who Coppell rewarded let us down.

Some of those players bottled it. Hunt, Shorey, Kitson, Lita, Harper. Harsh to single them out but they were not a shadow of themselves second season in the Prem.

They all thought they were better than they were and deserved a bigger/better club - well, all those listed have hardly set the world alight since leaving us - they might be on good money now, but they'll end up journeymen, not the fantastic players they think they are and serves them right for being greedy. When they played for us they had "legend" status, now they're no-marks in most cases. With hindsight, had they stayed with us another couple of seasons and kept us up, things could be so different for all concerned, and most particularly this club. In my opinion, of course.