Scotland loses CL place

[Compo's Hat]

A team full of average Championship players doesn't deserve an automatic Champions League place.

When you see the likes of Standard Liege improving then i think it's deserved for Belgium football i feel.

[Sun Tzu]

when last were there 4 contenders for your league?

Every August.

rofl

you honesty believed there were 4 contenders for the EPL title each of the last few summers?

That seems pretty uncontroversial.

Clearly each season some are stronger contenders than others but you'd have to be appearing on ' Defned the Indefensible' to claim that Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal haven't been consistently contenders for the title at the start of the last few seasons.

Whether next summer sees that stay at 4 or expand to 5 or 6 who knows.

I think you need to pay a bit more attention to the Premier League and a bit less to the rubbish north of the border.....

[Royal With Cheese]

What's the big deal?

It's just like the FA Cup. The further you are up the food chain the less games you have to play.

[weybridgewanderer]

That seems pretty uncontroversial.

Clearly each season some are stronger contenders than others but you'd have to be appearing on ' Defned the Indefensible' to claim that Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal haven't been consistently contenders for the title at the start of the last few seasons.

Whether next summer sees that stay at 4 or expand to 5 or 6 who knows.

I think you need to pay a bit more attention to the Premier League and a bit less to the rubbish north of the border.....

if you think at the start of the season there are any serious contenders for the EPL title than man u and chelsea you are the one that needs a reality check

yes, others hang on to their coattails, as happens in the SPL, this season its Hibs and Dundee Utd

in the SPL you don't know who that will be.

In the EPL it is currently Arsemal or L'Pool

[Mr Angry]

Thats totally wrong; this season, based upon how they finished last season, serious commentators believed that Liverpool could genuinely threaten the Man Utd (no Ronaldo) and Chelsea (aging defenders) duopoly. Therefore, 3 teams were seen as genuine title contenders. If Van Persie hadn't got his injury, Arsenal would have had more of a hope (and don't write them off yet as they have the easiest run in of the top 3) whilst the wealth of Man City, the steady if unspectacular growth of Villa, and 'Arry's splashing the cash means that realistically, there are 7 teams who have a chance of winning the Premier league

As for Scottish football, apart from Scots and religeous bigots, no-one gives a toss. In the last 45 years only 2 non Auld firm teams have won the top Division in Scotland - thats the sort of footballing closed shop that teams in places like Latvia, Lituania and Moldova can only dream about!

[Sun Tzu]

That seems pretty uncontroversial.

Clearly each season some are stronger contenders than others but you'd have to be appearing on ' Defned the Indefensible' to claim that Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal haven't been consistently contenders for the title at the start of the last few seasons.

Whether next summer sees that stay at 4 or expand to 5 or 6 who knows.

I think you need to pay a bit more attention to the Premier League and a bit less to the rubbish north of the border.....

if you think at the start of the season there are any serious contenders for the EPL title than man u and chelsea you are the one that needs a reality check

yes, others hang on to their coattails, as happens in the SPL, this season its Hibs and Dundee Utd

in the SPL you don't know who that will be.

In the EPL it is currently Arsemal or L'Pool

So who finished runners up last season in the PL (no need for the E by the way !) ?

And how many times in the last 11 years has someone other than the 'Big' 2 finished in the top 2 (that will be once) in the backwater of Scottish football ?

And how many times in the last 11 years has someone other than Man Utd or Chelsea finished in the top 2 in the PL (that will be

Well done to Liverpool last season for hanging on Chelsea's coat tails by the unusual means of finishing above them !!

[Wax Jacket]

SPLOL

fixed

[weybridgewanderer]

That seems pretty uncontroversial.

Clearly each season some are stronger contenders than others but you'd have to be appearing on ' Defned the Indefensible' to claim that Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal haven't been consistently contenders for the title at the start of the last few seasons.

Whether next summer sees that stay at 4 or expand to 5 or 6 who knows.

I think you need to pay a bit more attention to the Premier League and a bit less to the rubbish north of the border.....

if you think at the start of the season there are any serious contenders for the EPL title than man u and chelsea you are the one that needs a reality check

yes, others hang on to their coattails, as happens in the SPL, this season its Hibs and Dundee Utd

in the SPL you don't know who that will be.

In the EPL it is currently Arsemal or L'Pool

So who finished runners up last season in the PL (no need for the E by the way !) ?

And how many times in the last 11 years has someone other than the 'Big' 2 finished in the top 2 (that will be once) in the backwater of Scottish football ?

And how many times in the last 11 years has someone other than Man Utd or Chelsea finished in the top 2 in the PL (that will be

Well done to Liverpool last season for hanging on Chelsea's coat tails by the unusual means of finishing above them !!

happens in scotland too

2005/2006 season

1 Celtic 38 28 7 3 93 37 14 4 1 41 15 14 3 2 52 22 +56 91
2 Heart of Midlothian 38 22 8 8 71 31 15 2 2 43 9 7 6 6 28 22 +40 74
3 Rangers 38 21 10 7 67 37 13 4 2 38 11 8 6 5 29 26 +30 73
4 Hibernian 38 17 5 16 61 56 11 1 7 39 24 6 4 9 22 32 +5 56
5 Kilmarnock 38 15 10 13 63 64 11 3 5 39 29 4 7 8 24 35 -1 55
6 Aberdeen 38 13 15 10 46 40 8 9 3 30 17 5 6 7 16 23 +6 54

and the celtic defense has been so bad this season there is a possibility hibs and dundee utd could finish above celtic this season

[Sun Tzu]

happens in scotland too

2005/2006 season

1 Celtic 38 28 7 3 93 37 14 4 1 41 15 14 3 2 52 22 +56 91
2 Heart of Midlothian 38 22 8 8 71 31 15 2 2 43 9 7 6 6 28 22 +40 74
3 Rangers 38 21 10 7 67 37 13 4 2 38 11 8 6 5 29 26 +30 73
4 Hibernian 38 17 5 16 61 56 11 1 7 39 24 6 4 9 22 32 +5 56
5 Kilmarnock 38 15 10 13 63 64 11 3 5 39 29 4 7 8 24 35 -1 55
6 Aberdeen 38 13 15 10 46 40 8 9 3 30 17 5 6 7 16 23 +6 54

So that will be the one time it's happened in the last decade or more, the one time I'd mentioned in my previous post !

One CL place still seems fair. Of course you could always come back and provide a list of recent CL winners (or finalists, or semi finalists from the Glasgow Premier League.

Am I right in recalling that in the last 5 years there has been at least one English finalist each year, and that covers 4 different teams....

[Royalee]

Correct decision by UEFA for once, pretty funny as well.

[Row Z Royal]

Scotland has one of its two places to Belgium starting from the 2011-2012 season.

Pathetic.

SPLOL

[weybridgewanderer]

happens in scotland too

2005/2006 season

1 Celtic 38 28 7 3 93 37 14 4 1 41 15 14 3 2 52 22 +56 91
2 Heart of Midlothian 38 22 8 8 71 31 15 2 2 43 9 7 6 6 28 22 +40 74
3 Rangers 38 21 10 7 67 37 13 4 2 38 11 8 6 5 29 26 +30 73
4 Hibernian 38 17 5 16 61 56 11 1 7 39 24 6 4 9 22 32 +5 56
5 Kilmarnock 38 15 10 13 63 64 11 3 5 39 29 4 7 8 24 35 -1 55
6 Aberdeen 38 13 15 10 46 40 8 9 3 30 17 5 6 7 16 23 +6 54

So that will be the one time it's happened in the last decade or more, the one time I'd mentioned in my previous post !

One CL place still seems fair. Of course you could always come back and provide a list of recent CL winners (or finalists, or semi finalists from the Glasgow Premier League.

Am I right in recalling that in the last 5 years there has been at least one English finalist each year, and that covers 4 different teams....

when did I say there was anything unfair about scotland only getting 1 qualifying place?

I said for scotland I thought the worry was not losing the 2nd place but the fact they have lost the direct qualification place

I think, the season after next, Scotland will struggle to have anyone reach the champions league group stage

[Sun Tzu]

when did I say there was anything unfair about scotland only getting 1 qualifying place?

Um, nowhere. Where did I say you did ?

I said for scotland I thought the worry was not losing the 2nd place but the fact they have lost the direct qualification place

I think, the season after next, Scotland will struggle to have anyone reach the champions league group stage

Scotland usually have trouble int hat though don't they ?

If the team is good enough it will qualify, if it's not good enough to qualify it's not good enough to get an automatic place.

Have you accepted that in the PL 4 contenders is a pretty reasonable claim (starting to look like the Big 4 may be becoming larger as well...)

[weybridgewanderer]

Um, nowhere. Where did I say you did ?

One CL place still seems fair. Of course you could always come back and provide a list of recent CL winners (or finalists, or semi finalists from the Glasgow Premier League.

Scotland usually have trouble int hat though don't they ?

Exactly! This is the point Iwas making, we struggle with the qualifying place, so to have lost the direct entry place is a bigger problem than losing one of the qualifying places

From 2011/2012 Scotland will have NO CL place, they will have 1 Champions Legaue qualifying place. This is a result of the poor co efficient and a direct result of the poor performance of Scottish teams in european competition over the last 5 years.

There was around 10 million champions league money coming into scottish football every season. Sicne we lose the direct entry and will only have qualifying places, which I think they will struggle to qualify from, Scottish football will lose all the champions league money.

If the team is good enough it will qualify, if it's not good enough to qualify it's not good enough to get an automatic place.

agreed

Have you accepted that in the PL 4 contenders is a pretty reasonable claim (starting to look like the Big 4 may be becoming larger as well...)

No, I do not believe anyone other than man u or chelsea has had a realistic shot at the Premier League title for several years. You can argue with me as much as you want, you will not convince me otherwise.

The "Big 4" becoming bigger just means more teams being happy with 4th place.

[Sun Tzu]

No, I do not believe anyone other than man u or chelsea has had a realistic shot at the Premier League title for several years. You can argue with me as much as you want, you will not convince me otherwise.

The "Big 4" becoming bigger just means more teams being happy with 4th place.

We should agree to differ on this then !
I'll let the facts speak for themselves !!

[FiNeRaIn]

The last time someone other than man united or chelsea won it was in the 2004/2003 season. Arsenal damaged their finances by building the emirates and as a result they've fallen a long way behind chelsea and man united in terms of squad size and quality, they are gradually clawing that back but still lack the strength in depth. If you want to talk about facts, look at their recent results against them - they've lost all four games.
Liverpool are even worse, they've spent money yet are still nowhere near closing the gap and will be behind arsenal this season.

Going forwards, there is a small chance arsenal will catch up with the top two but wenger needs money and he needs to spend big - who knows whether he will get this. They are still 2/3 quality players short of being good enough. Liverpool are just liverpool, can't see them being strong enough in the foreseeable future.

As for the Scottish champs league discussion, hard to disagree with it. Rangers and Celtic have the poorest teams in my life time. The lure of the ridiculous money in england is too much too much for players to turn down north of the border now and its the same for continental players moving to Britain, they'd rather take the money down south. When football was about reputation, history, chance of success and tradition then big names wanted to be a part of that. Rangers and Celtic used to be good sides and were never easy to beat. The likes of the De boer's, larsson, laudrup, gazza, albertz, di canio, amongst a few others who I have forgotten all played there and delivered quality and were paid the going rate - not the ridiculous sums now. These days people would rather join wigan for treble the wages and as a result the standard ( which was never great but at least displayed some quality at times) has fallen to an all-time low and not even the old firm games display decent football anymore.

Grass roots is the way forward for Rangers and with players like Wilson, fleck and lyttle in the pipeline its exciting to see how they grow - like Reading with sig, karacan , church,etc
When the big names don't want to play for you, you take pride in making your own great players. Its much more satisfying when its one of your own than recruiting from elsewhere.
With the SPL you have to really push the politics aside and take the situation for what it is, again like with reading the last few years. Down to the bare bones because of finances and Reading have gone from a team who was headed up and looking like being a possibly regular prem team ( not unthinkable after an 8th place finish) to a relegation struggle in the championship, why? Because of money. The lack of money spent up there, the lack of being unable to sustain the wage structure after not gaining promotion.

Rangers have had some good nights in Europe, beating the likes of Leeds, Parma, Dortmund,etc In fact, take a look at this goal and its arsenal-esque against dortmund almost 10 years ago. How times change.

http://www.youtube.com/user/therangers1 ... NTM7iXEINw

[papereyes]

Exactly! This is the point Iwas making, we struggle with the qualifying place, so to have lost the direct entry place is a bigger problem than losing one of the qualifying places

From 2011/2012 Scotland will have NO CL place, they will have 1 Champions Legaue qualifying place. This is a result of the poor co efficient and a direct result of the poor performance of Scottish teams in european competition over the last 5 years.

There was around 10 million champions league money coming into scottish football every season. Sicne we lose the direct entry and will only have qualifying places, which I think they will struggle to qualify from, Scottish football will lose all the champions league money.

There's just one thing that needs saying - its automatic, based on Scottish teams results. Its entirely down to them being pish in Europe over the last 5 years.