EngLOLand - The Backlash!

[papereyes]

What is money when you can experience new climbs and cultures? Huge kudos to people like Beckham, Mcmanaman, Waddle, Des Walker and Platt for having a go somewhere else. Helped their game didn't it?

At the time, the money and kudos was there for Platt and Walker in Italy.

[Archie's penalty]

Waddle played in Italy?

[Baines]

Waddle played in Italy?

Torquay is sometimes considered the English riviera, so maybe.

[papereyes]

I meant Walker.

Waddle was at Marseilles. obv.
So was Cascarino.

Famous OSM strikers - Papin, Weah and Irish Tony.

[LUX]

OSM?

[Hoop Blah]

Haven't read the previous 14 pages but for me the problem with the England team/players is that every one of them plays in England (the premiership) so the only style of football they know is the English one - look at the other nations who are doing well and their players play all over Europe/World so each player brings something new from a different style of play.

I dont know why England never have young, up and coming players playing abroad

Can't see that being any real factor to be honest, for a number of reasons.

1, pretty much all of them play in European competitions
2, they all play with foreign imports in the Premiership so although day to day it's an English style, it's much less so than it used to be
and most importantly
3, it doesn't seem to have held back the Germans (all their squad play in Germany) or the Spanish (all bar 2 or 3 play in Spain)

[Archie's penalty]

OSM?

Also love the way Baines quoted Papes' Waddle in Italy comment.

[papereyes]

In 'Back to the Future', Doc sets clock in the DeLorean to a day 25 yrs in the future. Today is that day

[Archie's penalty]

That was my mate's fault!

[papereyes]

[TBM]

Haven't read the previous 14 pages but for me the problem with the England team/players is that every one of them plays in England (the premiership) so the only style of football they know is the English one - look at the other nations who are doing well and their players play all over Europe/World so each player brings something new from a different style of play.

I dont know why England never have young, up and coming players playing abroad

Can't see that being any real factor to be honest, for a number of reasons.

1, pretty much all of them play in European competitions
2, they all play with foreign imports in the Premiership so although day to day it's an English style, it's much less so than it used to be
and most importantly
3, it doesn't seem to have held back the Germans (all their squad play in Germany) or the Spanish (all bar 2 or 3 play in Spain)

Fair points!

With the Germans they are a young, hungry squad and have something special in that they have no real "stars" - each player is as good as the next and its hard to pick a main man for them, one game is Ozil, then its Schweinsteiger, then its Muller, then maybe Mertesacker etc. The average age of that squad has got to be early to mid 20's? - what they have done is put together 11 players that compliment each other, not play players cos they are regarded as "world class" (ie, Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, Rooney all play no matter what form they are in)

Spain....they are very hit and miss for me, i dont think they have really done anything special in this world cup - the real test for them comes next against Germany and then more than likely Holland.

Maybe England just need to start again - keep some players of influence (Ferdinand, Beckham etc) but as of the next game start thinking to the next world cup in 4 years. Its obvious that a majority of the squad for this WC won't play in the next so lets start playing the likes of Johnson, Hart, Dawson, Walcott for the Euro qualifers, get through the groups of that and then maybe ride our luck (basically dont pin our hopes on them winning it) but by the time the WC comes in 2012 these players will have 4 years of time together and just maybe then we'll be like Germany are this year!!?

[FiNeRaIn]

Na, we'll never be anything in international football, sooner the country accepts that the better. Its rotten from the grass roots upwards.

[Big Foot]

Not read the majority of this thread but one thing which does make me laugh more than most is some of the "houlier than thou" attitudes used by some of the pundits when it comes to England.

Point in reference, Sam Allardyce in NoTW a few days ago calling for a cap on the number of foreigners in the Premiership!!

Taken a random game from Allardyce's tenure at Bolton and this was his squad

Bolton: Jaaskelainen, Hunt (Ben-Haim, 85 ) , N'Gotty, Julio Cesar, Gardner, Okocha, Campo, Speed, Pedersen, Kevin Davies (Ferdinand, 77 ) , Nolan (Giannakopoulos, 77 )
Subs not used: Poole,Barness,

3 English players in the starting XI, what on earth makes him so qualified to get on his high horse?

[Hoop Blah]

I don't think you can knock Allardyce's intentions though.

He couldn't go on some moral crusade at Bolton because they just couldn't afford to buy English players and he had a job to do. If the rules prevented it and made all clubs adopt some sort of limit then I'd imagine he'd be happy to.

One of the things I like about O'Neils Villa side is that he's tried to, and been able to afford to, build a largely English squad. It's refreshing to see, but you have to have the budget behind you to do it.

[Big Foot]

I don't think you can knock Allardyce's intentions though.

He couldn't go on some moral crusade at Bolton because they just couldn't afford to buy English players and he had a job to do. If the rules prevented it and made all clubs adopt some sort of limit then I'd imagine he'd be happy to.

One of the things I like about O'Neils Villa side is that he's tried to, and been able to afford to, build a largely English squad. It's refreshing to see, but you have to have the budget behind you to do it.

It all rather smacks a bit of a "do as I say, not do as I do" attitude though to me

[Hoop Blah]

TBM, totally agree on the Germans, although I think it's fair to say that in Ballack, Lahm and Schweinsteiger they have their squads big names (even if Ballack isn't there because of injury).

Unfortunately they're doing exactly what we should've been doing, ie playing a pretty English style of direct and pacey football without having the players with the technique or reputations of the Spanish, Argies or even Dutch. It's their teamwork and willingness to give up personal glory for the greater benefit of the team that our lot just didn't seem able to do. It's all about the egos!

Interestingly, I think that although the German squad is the youngest they've ever sent to world cup they've got more caps than the last one. So their young but not 'green' at this level.

There was an interesting artical from Klinsmann on the BBC this week about how they went about rebuilding when he took over, and how it almost all fell apart before their run of form in the World Cup. I do think we need something similar, but the Germans structure is so different to ours I'm not sure we can.

[Hoop Blah]

It all rather smacks a bit of a "do as I say, not do as I do" attitude though to me

Well it is to an extent, but I'd bet he said the rules need to change not just managers need to do it off their own back.

It's the regulations that need bending if we want to see more English players in our league because otherwise managers will always look for cheaper alternatives, and English players are always going to be at a premium price because largely they're proven at playing in England.

[6ft Kerplunk]

That Bolton team was from before S'Alex started telling him what to think and say.

[Big Foot]

TBM, totally agree on the Germans, although I think it's fair to say that in Ballack, Lahm and Schweinsteiger they have their squads big names (even if Ballack isn't there because of injury).

Unfortunately they're doing exactly what we should've been doing, ie playing a pretty English style of direct and pacey football without having the players with the technique or reputations of the Spanish, Argies or even Dutch. It's their teamwork and willingness to give up personal glory for the greater benefit of the team that our lot just didn't seem able to do. It's all about the egos!

Interestingly, I think that although the German squad is the youngest they've ever sent to world cup they've got more caps than the last one. So their young but not 'green' at this level.

There was an interesting artical from Klinsmann on the BBC this week about how they went about rebuilding when he took over, and how it almost all fell apart before their run of form in the World Cup. I do think we need something similar, but the Germans structure is so different to ours I'm not sure we can.

Read that article too, it's a good read

For me you have 2 footballing bodies in this country pulling in opposite directions - The FA and The Premierleague - until they work more closely together, we'll never see this country get close to the rebuild job that Germany has just completed

[papereyes]

Unfortunately they're doing exactly what we should've been doing, ie playing a pretty English style of direct and pacey football without having the players with the technique or reputations of the Spanish, Argies or even Dutch. It's their teamwork and willingness to give up personal glory for the greater benefit of the team that our lot just didn't seem able to do. It's all about the egos!

There was a good article that suggested that what they were doing right was playing an English game when it suited but having the flexibility to play a possession game and changing quickly between the two.

There was no more tedious sight over the last footballing decade than England trying to play a possession game.