Long - time for a change?

[Big Foot]

I would say to him "Longy - you need a rest Son" then start with NHunt and Church in a 442.

Long didn't start scoring till after Xmas last season; give him the rest of the month off and bring him back in Jan.

Long barely PLAYED before Xmas last season. He started scoring as soon as he got an extended run

So what's his excuse this season?

[Svlad Cjelli]

The point with Cox is that you just don't have to be 'good enough' sometimes to make a difference.

There's lots of players who just have a moment to their career or a time when, despite not being good enough can provide a spark for some reason. That's all water well under the bridge though.

The 106 team kind of picked itself, but it still had good competition in a few areas (Doyle, Kitson, Lita plus Long who played a role off the bench or Little and Convey with Hunt and Oster as compeition - not that Little was ever under pressure). That's fine when things are going well, but when things go wrong or need freshening up then competition is needed. That might be why Coppell was good when things were going well but struggled wherever he was to turn round a bad run of form. McDermott might be similar to Coppell in that sense.

Indeed, and also that Coppell valued the "team dynamic" much more than individual performers, so he was relcutant to change things for fear of losing that.

I agree the BMc is similar, but I think part of it is that he knows that if he drops Long now he's more or less finishing him for good - he's such a confidence player that I'm not sure he'd recover psychologically. The only other way for Long to go is for him to score goals, which is why he's being given so mancy chanes to do that.

I think everyone feels that if he scores a couple then he'll carry on scoring more, but the situation right now is that the more he's not scoring, and the more he misses chances, the harder it gets for him to ever score and the lower his confidence slumps . Drop him and will he recover from it? I'm not sure it'd motivate him (motivation's not the problem!) but the message that even the manager doesn't have confidence in him is a blow to the confidence that might be crippling.

[Snowball]

I would say to him "Longy - you need a rest Son" then start with NHunt and Church in a 442.

Long didn't start scoring till after Xmas last season; give him the rest of the month off and bring him back in Jan.

Long barely PLAYED before Xmas last season. He started scoring as soon as he got an extended run

So what's his excuse this season?

Not saying he has an excuse. I don't believe 451 suits him. Have been saying that for two seasons.
He's just on a run that can happen to any striker. Doyle, for example, ONE league goal this season

And then they get nervous, get unlucky, think too much.


Luckily, Hunt has stepped in with 12 goals, Church with 11, Kebe with 9 and McAnuff 8


No, wait, Long is top-scorer... That can't be right, can it?

[Hoop Blah]

Agreed Dirk, there's more to it than just the result of the next game at stake, and managing those players mental state is a bigger part of management than teaching them to control the ball.

A good manager will look after his players but also make the right decisions for the short and long term of the team. Sticking by Long so steadfastly 2 months ago has got McDermott into the position he has now. Personally I don't think he's handled the situation very well but I accept that his hands are tied to an extent because of the financial situation at the club but, it's also part of the managers job to convince those holding the purse strings to loosen them if it's needed.

[T.R.O.L.I.]

No, wait, Long is top-scorer... That can't be right, can it?

Equal with Kebe and Harte and one ahead of Church.

Now, remind me how many minutes of League game pitch time (bearing in mind this thread is about Reading FC and our perfomance in league games) Long has in comparison with Church?

I'll give you a starting point:

Long: 19 starts, 0 sub appearances
Church: 8 starts, 11 sub appearances

[Svlad Cjelli]

Yep, he's been playing a game of poker, balancing Shane Long's confidence against the teams results. If it comes good he wins on both counts, because he's then got a confident striker who's scoring goals AND a winning team.

But at the moment he seems more like a losing gambler who feels they can't afford to give up throwing good money after bad - he's invested so much in Shane Long's confidence that to drop him now would be much, much worse than dropping him 2, 5 or 10 games ago would have been, so he has to persevere.

[Hoop Blah]

Yep, he's been playing a game of poker, balancing Shane Long's confidence against the teams results. If it comes good he wins on both counts, because he's then got a confident striker who's scoring goals AND a winning team. .

Unfortunately I'd say he's already lost. We've slipped away from a decent position a couple of months ago largely on the back of wasting very good and very crucial chances.

The little momentum we had has gone and both Long and the crowd are on a downward spirral.

But at the moment he seems more like a losing gambler who feels they can't afford to give up throwing good money after bad - he's invested so much in Shane Long's confidence that to drop him now would be much, much worse than dropping him 2, 5 or 10 games ago would have been, so he has to persevere.

Probably the first big test of his managerial metal if you ask me (turning Kebe's form round might've been the first if you like) and he's failed it unfortunately. As you say, he's backed himself into a corner and he's throwing good money after bad to try and punt his way out a losing hand.

[Svlad Cjelli]

No arguments of either of those points.

[floyd__streete]

Now, remind me how many minutes of League game pitch time (bearing in mind this thread is about Reading FC and our perfomance in league games) Long has in comparison with Church?

I'll give you a starting point:

Long: 19 starts, 0 sub appearances
Church: 8 starts, 11 sub appearances

How many of Church's goals have come from open play?

Can someone find me a striker in this division with a worse goals-from-open-play to minutes-on-pitch ratio?

[Oi Oi Saveloy]

I can only think that Long is in the side ahead of Church because his all-round play is better. As far as I see it though, a strikrs job is to put the ball in the back of the net, and Church is better at doing that from open play.

I can only hope the powers that be have now woken up to the fact that our blunt strikeforce may well result with us getting dragged into a relegation fight. We made the mistake in the Premiership of not spending and went down, it would be criminal to not learn from our mistakes and do it again. All depends if the money from the Sig has vanished into the black hole that are the finances of the club, or will they spend a small amount and give us a fighting chance. The right player would secure s in this division and mayeb even allow us to flirt with the play-offs.

I don;t hold out much hope though in the January transfer window....I fear the same old stories linking us with potential player but nothing happens and w get the same old "Happy with what we've got" quotes carted out again.

[facaldaqui]

I think everyone feels that if he scores a couple then he'll carry on scoring more, but the situation right now is that the more he's not scoring, and the more he misses chances, the harder it gets for him to ever score and the lower his confidence slumps.

I don't feel that. I think it's more likely that if he scores a couple he'll stop scoring again. He's had little scoring bursts in the past--last season and the season before--and then gone into dry spells again. On both those occasions, people on here were saying "at last, now he's off and running as a scorer": not so. Shane by the law of averages must score now and again, but overall he's always been poor at scoring and poor at ball control: such things do not change.

Despite this, he still has to be in the team, because Church is even worse. And although Church has been around a much shorter time than Long, he's not a natural scorer either. He also had a little burst of goals last season and then became duff again. I hope we will learn our lesson and not persevere with him season in and season out the way we have with Long.

I can't think of strikers who've been duds in their early days and later prolific (I don't mean people like Paul Warhurst who originally didn't play up front). It seems to me a young dud grows into an old dud, because goalscoring is partly instinctive.

[brendywendy]

think his touch and control have improved imeasurably this season, it just seems its at the expense of his already distinctly average shooting.
still reckon hell go on his little run again after xmas and get up around 9-10 goals.
if we had another striker that could play in a pair it wouldnt be such an pressure issue.


i see where McD is coming from though and agree with dirkers about brian trying to get him to play well by giving him his fulol backing.
and i believe this was always with the view to looking again in jan.

[Snowball]

No, wait, Long is top-scorer... That can't be right, can it?

Equal with Kebe and Harte and one ahead of Church.

Now, remind me how many minutes of League game pitch time (bearing in mind this thread is about Reading FC and our perfomance in league games) Long has in comparison with Church?

Long: 19 starts, 0 sub appearances
Church: 8 starts, 11 sub appearances

Phrase this another way. In 8 starts and 8 sub appearances Church has scored ZERO goals.

He had a brief flurry of last minute goals in 3 close-together sub-appearances but otherwise has looked quite poor and "lost"

I don't know why. I like the guy but this season he's been really weak and that flurry of 3 late-sub goals, one deflection, one complete mis-hit have covered up his poor form.

[Blue Hooped Moose]

I don't believe 451 suits him.

We seemed to be lining up in a 4-4-2 on Saturday...

[facaldaqui]

Phrase this another way. In 8 starts and 8 sub appearances Church has scored ZERO goals.

He had a brief flurry of last minute goals in 3 close-together sub-appearances but otherwise has looked quite poor and "lost"

I don't know why. I like the guy but this season he's been really weak and that flurry of 3 late-sub goals, one deflection, one complete mis-hit have covered up his poor form.

I agree with you about Church; but as a statistics man, you can't quibble about how the goals went in: they went in and so are on the record. If only Shane could score the occasional fluke and mishit: it beggars belief he hasn't bobbled one in off the shin, or whatever.

I've said it before, but I think Shane should deliberately aim to miss. At the moment he is going just wide or just over; if he aims just wide or just over, he's such a bad shot they might start going in.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Phrase this another way. In 8 starts and 8 sub appearances Church has scored ZERO goals.

He had a brief flurry of last minute goals in 3 close-together sub-appearances but otherwise has looked quite poor and "lost"

I don't know why. I like the guy but this season he's been really weak and that flurry of 3 late-sub goals, one deflection, one complete mis-hit have covered up his poor form.

I agree with you about Church; but as a statistics man, you can't quibble about how the goals went in: they went in and so are on the record. If only Shane could score the occasional fluke and mishit: it beggars belief he hasn't bobbled one in off the shin, or whatever.

I've said it before, but I think Shane should deliberately aim to miss. At the moment he is going just wide or just over; if he aims just wide or just over, he's such a bad shot they might start going in.

It really is all down to confidence. A confident striker just scores goals instinctively, without thinking what they're doing. A striker who is short of confidence or who is under pressure just delays that millisecond or tries to get into a position where they're more likely to score - inevitably the chance goes begging then.

It's a vicious circle - more desperate to score = less likely to score. So i agree we need him to bobble one in off his shin or even deflect one in with his arse.

[Hoop Blah]

As I think someone pointed out on the back from the game thread, Long makes the wrong runs to get the flukes. The example was about him running to the front of the six yard box instead of the near/far post for a tap in.

All too often he makes that kind of mistake.

[Svlad Cjelli]

As I think someone pointed out on the back from the game thread, Long makes the wrong runs to get the flukes. The example was about him running to the front of the six yard box instead of the near/far post for a tap in.

All too often he makes that kind of mistake.

True. I think now we're suffering from Steve Coppell's refusal to loan him out in PL season 2 so he could gain experience lower down the leagues - because he came to the game relatively late and spent the majority of him time before last season sitting on the bench, he's actually played relatively little football for someone of his age.

[Snowball]

I didn't see the game v Coventry, but aren't you all saying he missed four chances?

And then you're also saying he doesn't get in the right place to get chances?

[Hoop Blah]

I didn't see the game v Coventry, but aren't you all saying he missed four chances?

And then you're also saying he doesn't get in the right place to get chances?

Yes, that's not a difficult concept for someone as staggeringly intelligent as you is it?

He gets some chances, which he has a bad habit of missing by the way, but he doesn't get as many as he could/should, and subsequently doesn't score as manay goals, especially tap ins and flukes, as someone who attacks the right areas or just 'accidently' happens to be in the right place at the right time.