"Reading prove patience is a virtue"

[Millsy]

One promotion in 20 years of 'ambition' followed by a bizarre lack of investment leading to a relegation (when to stay up would have been easier) proves what exactly?

I like the start of the article - says it how it is. A booming town deserving of a good club but not really getting what it deserves.

Apologies to the Rectum Crew.

Reading proves patience makes a good Nearly Club.

Welcome to Reading NC.

[Ian Royal]

Schards always makes good points and can put forward a strong argument. But for me their always warped by an unduly negative twist though - quite possibly to help try and avoid having to back down from his infamous thread about sea changes and mid-table mediocrity.

One of the major causes of falling through the trap door into League One is financial difficulties. If you can avoid those then you always have a good base to build on for getting back into the Premier League.

Biding your time with moderate success each season >>>>>> brief big success followed by an increased chance of nosedive back to our old stomping ground of the third tier IMO


2ww1wc - you can't count mate. 3 promotions in 20 years.

[papereyes]

You completely disregard the fact that there is an ongoing recession and financial crisis in Europe that coincides with the most significant drop in attendances - 2008/2009 vs 2009/10
This has actually happened very many places. In many countries it is much worse. For example in Scotland, some teams that used to draw crowds of 4000 are struggling to draw 500.

Not saying I disbelieve you but there's at least one website where you can show that's the case.

I'll try and dig it out. Premiership, iirc, has been gently falling over this period. Championship I think, has stayed pretty consistent.

[ZacNaloen]

It's much more to do with the fact we were relegated. It's just what happens, until crowds drop to pre-2005 season (as crowds were artificially high once it became apparent promotion was coming and people bought the half season tickets) levels Schards doesn't have much of a point to make there.


Teams get relegated, crowds drop. Would be interesting to see a graph that shows the average % drop following relegation and where we stand though.

[papereyes]

2008/2009 - 19936

2009/2010 - 17408

is the gap Ideal is getting at. Its no surprise that crowds wouldn't fall so much the first time around. We had a good (ish) start and there's the bulk of the team remaining from the relegation season. Sure, we'd lose some but a further drop isn't surprising, especially given the change in economic climate at the same time.

[Wimb]

Doing some rough figures Zac, on the teams that have been relegated alongside Reading since 2007/2008.

------------2007/08 AVERAGE:-------2008/09:-------2009/10---------2010/2011
Reading--------23,585 (PL)-----------19,940 (CCC)----17,408 (CCC)----17,216 (CCC)
Birmingham-----26,180 (PL)----------19,081 (CCC)---- 25,246 (PL)------24,729 (PL)
Derby---------32,432 (PL)----------29,440 (CCC)-----29,230 (CCC)-----26,306 (CCC)
West Brom-----22,311 (CCC)---------25,827 (PL)------22,199 (CCC)-----24,729 (PL)
Newcastle------51,320 (PL)-----------48,749 (PL)------43,387 (CCC)-----46,569 (PL)
Middlesbrough---26,707 (PL)----------28,428 (PL)------19,948 (CCC)-----16,560 (CCC)
Burnley--------12,364 (CCC)--------15,891 (CCC)----20,653 (PL)-------15,261 (CCC)
Hull----------18,238 (CCC)--------24,816 (PL)-------24,389 (PL)-------21,140 (CCC)
Portsmouth------19,914 (PL)--------19,829 (PL)------18,249 (PL)-------16,189 (CCC)


Looking at the above it's clear that every club loses fans after relegation, whether you're Reading or Newcastle, it makes no difference. Since relegation Reading's average has dropped by around 20%, but Derby's has dropped by around the same.
Two seasons after relegation Middlesbrough are now down by over 35%, in one season Burnley have fallen by 25% and even Newcastle saw their fanbase drop by over 10% despite romping to the Championship.
Schards if you can look at those stats and still think of Reading's attendance drop as unique then go ahead.

*edit bah, formatting is a little screwy so I apologise!

[papereyes]

Pictures would show data better.

/repeats

[Rex]

I personally am loving the fact that there is no panic at getting away tickets now and can shift seats at home games.

[Hoop Blah]

If I were the club I'd be worried about the number of STHs and regulars who don't seem to be turning up very often. Where I sit is largely a STH area but every game there are other people using a number of the tickets or empty seats.

That's a bad sign when you lose your regulars like that. The floating fan will, by definition, come and go, but when it's your core support not turning up then I think there are problems on the horizon.

[Wimb]

Pictures would show data better.

/repeats

Valid, can't be bothered plotting it in excel though

[papereyes]

I am. Beats job hunting.

[Wimb]

I am. Beats job hunting.

Good work

[Rex]

If I were the club I'd be worried about the number of STHs and regulars who don't seem to be turning up very often. Where I sit is largely a STH area but every game there are other people using a number of the tickets or empty seats.

That's a bad sign when you lose your regulars like that. The floating fan will, by definition, come and go, but when it's your core support not turning up then I think there are problems on the horizon.

But peoples priorites change due to personal or external factors. The stadium is still up on the average gates of say, 2003. There are many who simply came along for the ride of the prem seasons then fell off. Some probably stayed but it takes sheer dedication , planning, the juggling of a career (or job), family, and a conciderable outlay to follow the team sometimes twice a week.

[Hoop Blah]

It's a worrying trend though, and one the club would be foolish to ignore as you seem to.

The majority of the people around us have been there for years, in fact since the stadium opened for a hell of a lot of us. Some are through other considerations but having spoken with most it's more a general malaise with RFC and modern football.

[papereyes]

I am. Beats job hunting.

Good work

There's a bit too much information.

Pick 5, 6 clubs for best comparison?

[Rex]

How do you construe that i am ignoring the trend from that? Trends, opinions and priorities have nothing to do with an individual with no influence.
Perhaps the club needs to factor in more enticing deals for the disillusioned supporters, prospective ST holders.

Following the team is all about disposable income surely.

[papereyes]

Y-axis = % of capacity
X-axis = season (see Wimb's post)

[Hoop Blah]

How do you construe that i am ignoring the trend from that? Trends, opinions and priorities have nothing to do with an individual with no influence.
Perhaps the club needs to factor in more enticing deals for the disillusioned supporters, prospective ST holders.

Following the team is all about disposable income surely.

How do I construe your ignoring it? By your attempts at explaining it away as just a financial or fan life cycle thing. Knowing the people involved and their reasons for attending less games, it would worry me if I were the club. These are long term fans who have already gone through the women and kids, moving away influences etc that usually drag fans away. They'd done that and stuck with us through think and thin (most, not all of course) but are wavering more than ever right now.

[rhroyal]

If I were the club I'd be worried about the number of STHs and regulars who don't seem to be turning up very often. Where I sit is largely a STH area but every game there are other people using a number of the tickets or empty seats.

That's a bad sign when you lose your regulars like that. The floating fan will, by definition, come and go, but when it's your core support not turning up then I think there are problems on the horizon.

I've always wondered how easy it would be for a club to set up an official sell on system. If you're a season ticket holder but you have a holiday, or a wedding or you live in London and midweek games are a big ask in your working week, surely you could make your ticket available on the online ticketing site? If it was sold you would get £5-10 back.

Of course that creates new problems in that people would buy season tickets to secure seats at big games or be in prime position in hope of promotion, instead of attending games. Perhaps they could set a limit of 5 league games where you're allowed to sell your seat on.

Personally I wouldn't buy a season ticket unless you can commit. I plan to move to London after I graduate next year and hope to start going to more game again, but I won't be getting a season tickets as realistically I'll have a busy lifestyle and will probably only make 15 games a year or so.

[Rex]

How do you construe that i am ignoring the trend from that? Trends, opinions and priorities have nothing to do with an individual with no influence.
Perhaps the club needs to factor in more enticing deals for the disillusioned supporters, prospective ST holders.

Following the team is all about disposable income surely.

How do I construe your ignoring it? By your attempts at explaining it away as just a financial or fan life cycle thing. Knowing the people involved and their reasons for attending less games, it would worry me if I were the club. These are long term fans who have already gone through the women and kids, moving away influences etc that usually drag fans away. They'd done that and stuck with us through think and thin (most, not all of course) but are wavering more than ever right now.

This could be a discussion between us going in ever increasing circles but i agree the club should be more proactive in retaining support. We reached heady heights and now are back down to the nuts and bolts of what this club is about.