england - the next generation

[Big Foot]

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[Kitsondinho]

And it has worked out so well for Spain.......They have played some lovely football, but do not look anywhere near as dangerous as their senior team. We haven't been as bad as you suggest.

[Royal Rother]

Shame really as a point will mask our inferiority and the only way things will change is if we keep getting humiliated in tournaments.

[FiNeRaIn]

Well would you believe it - Spain making our bunch of overpaid, overrated youngsters look second rate.

Still, they're big lads.

Meanwhile back at home there's probably a bunch of young athletes who gave up the game having been overlooked in favour of the less talented but early maturing 6 footers we so crave.

Just how far are we going to fall before we catch on?

I agree the FA need to change the grass roots setup ( they are useless and slow people) but the lads out there today have played well in parts and have probably created the better chances. Spains style is boring to me, they knock it round but thats all they do, they haven't created pacy breaks or sliced anything open, just kept possession and knocked it around. Thats it. Their goal was handball too.

[FiNeRaIn]

Shame really as a point will mask our inferiority and the only way things will change is if we keep getting humiliated in tournaments.

What was their handball goal masking then? the fact they can knock it around without creating a single other chance lol

[SpaceCruiser]

Shame really as a point will mask our inferiority and the only way things will change is if we keep getting humiliated in tournaments.

Oh piss off and suck on your rhubarb custard sauce.

[sandman]

Too right, Spain need to learn how to kick it in the corners and get it to the big man as quickly as possible. They won't win anything at any level playing the way they do.

[Royal Rother]

I'm probably over-critical of England but Spain, France and Germany seem to have developed a system where their players are coached to be far far superior technically than English players and whilst they won't always get it right, their way has been proved to be the way forward. Our way is anything but.

As 7 year olds they are no better than our kids - so it really isn't rocket science to suggest we should do what they have done. But I suppose it's too late as it will take 15 years for today's 7 year olds to come through to the national teams... by then they'll have moved on again. Oh well, (sigh).

[FiNeRaIn]

I'm probably over-critical of England but Spain, France and Germany seem to have developed a system where their players are coached to be far far superior technically than English players and whilst they won't always get it right, their way has been proved to be the way forward. Our way is anything but.

I agree, but that doesn't take away the fact spains goal was not within the rulebook and we've created the better chances.

I am an avid supporter of changing our grass roots set up. 11 a side should not be used until 16 + like spain and brazil. We need to have more one touch football with kids and play with small goals where the whole team attacks/defends as a unit. You learn to develop close control and technical skills. Having kids playing 11 a side so young is dumb, they miss out the midfield and boot it long to quick strikers, they don't learn. The FA are really stupid people, it would be the equivalent of having a cleaner try and manage within the financial industry, they'd be crap at it as they don't study finance. Why are they there? They know nothing about the game, our football needs to be run by real football people, even foreigners, headhunt them. Its definitely time to change.

[Hoop Blah]

You have to agree with RR on the technique side, to an extent at least.

Mata, Thiago and the lad who scored an obvious handball all looked very good. However, the most dangerous player on the pitch was our right back and if Wilshire was there he'd have been at least comparable to their boys (that produce them in numbers were ours are more Hendersons than Wilshires).

We also opted for a harrier and closer of a centre half (Mancienne) in the middle over a more graceful alternative in Rodwell. That's still a bit of a problem for us.

End of the day though Fielding didn't really have to extend himself so for all the pretty play it didn't get them anywhere.

I was disappointed in the quality of our play though. We gave the ball away far to cheaply and didn't get real foothold in the game.

[moo]

Several big names, well 4, didn't even bother with this tournament for us. Is this the same for Spain?

[Royal Rother]

Agreed FR. Sod paying the manager £6m a year, that's fcuking obscene.

Pay £6m for a team of retired proper football people on a wage equivalent to what they might get working for Sky, Liverpool or Chelsea TV (or whatever) to come in and devise a whole new plan for football from grass roots level up.

Headed by a proper student of the beautiful game (Arsene Wenger would be ideal) who, apart from being a great visionary, has the intellect and steel to deal with the naysayers and powerbrokers, things could start moving forward then....

Wishful thinking of course.

[Hoop Blah]

That is basically happening already though. There have been plenty of changes with charter clubs, restricting 11 a side leagues etc over the last 10-15 years.

We start playing 11 a side at 11 I think it is. Finerain has it wrong on u16s being tue youngest elsewhere, I think it's more like u13 or u14 for most of Europe but no idea on South America. The Dutch also play 11 a side at, IIRC, u12s and they probably produce the best talent per head going, so it can't be that bad for them can it?

The issue I believe we do have is dwindling involvement and quantity and quality of club (not the pros) and school coaches. This is something that is being worked on but it doesn't need ex-pros and managers to put it in place.

[FiNeRaIn]

Wenger knows the English game and is very good at supporting young players. He should be NAILED on to get a position within youth football in England, hopefully something more senior. The FA should not pass him up as its unlikely at his age he is going to manage elsewhere for very long, if at all. The problem is the fans and a lot of pundits can see where we are going wrong but the FA are utterly useless and are not a democracy so its hard to remove the idiots and get real football people in. Its a dictatorship similar to FIFA and its going to be very hard to change it. We can all see the problems but I am not in the least bit hopeful changes to grass roots will be made anytime soon. Plenty more heroic efforts by our cloggers in future tournaments only to go out against the more technical side as usual.

[Hoop Blah]

Also, don't forget that our u17s are current European Champions having beaten Spain and France in the finals tournament last summer.

[FiNeRaIn]

That is basically happening already though. There have been plenty of changes with charter clubs, restricting 11 a side leagues etc over the last 10-15 years.

We start playing 11 a side at 11 I think it is. Finerain has it wrong on u16s being tue youngest elsewhere,

I didn't say elsewhere, I said spain and brazil. I have a friend who is a coach who and I trust his information. Can't speak for Holland but against spain in the final they were lightyears behind.

[LUX]

Also, don't forget that our u17s are current European Champions having beaten Spain and France in the finals tournament last summer.

Not sure what it means, but France and Germany haven't qualified for these finals. Nor Holland or Italy.

[Hoop Blah]

Everything I've read would say Spain play it at under 14.

Our problems, which I'm not saying don't exist in some forms, aren't produced by the number of kids playing on a side, it's a function of society, facilities, climate, coaches and our general approach to the game. We don't concentrate on looking after the ball and that's why player like Scholes and Wilshire are the exception and not the rule.

[moo]

Well done England.

[Hoop Blah]

Also, don't forget that our u17s are current European Champions having beaten Spain and France in the finals tournament last summer.

Not sure what it means, but France and Germany haven't qualified for these finals. Nor Holland or Italy.

Depends how you look at it I guess.

In one way it's good for us to be there and learning from it. On the other hand if all we're concerned with is getting there and the result of the competition then we're not actually learning that we do need to improve some of the technical aspects of our game.