England Vs Wales

[cmonurz]

For now I think Gerrard will be in the squad for the Euros. Lamps won't be. All depends how much Cleverley kicks on this season, and/or whether Capello realises his fascination with Gareth Barry is putting the team on a defensive footing.

That said, if he sticks with 4-2-3-1, then I'd expect:

Hart
Smalling Cahill Ferdinand Cole
Barry Wilshere
Walcott Gerrard Young
Rooney

And to be honest that side can cope with a Barry, just.

I kind of hope Hargreaves has a shit time of it at City, as I really don't see what he can bring to the England team any more.

[Hoop Blah]

I kind of hope Hargreaves has a shit time of it at City, as I really don't see what he can bring to the England team any more.

Eh? I really don't understand the logic there. If Hargreaves can get back to anywhere near to the player he was then he'll be the best holding midfielder that England currently have available.

Why would you want him to not get back to his old form? He could offer more than Parker, Barry or anyone else we're looking at for the midfield destroyer.

[cmonurz]

Just a personal preference for not-Hargreaves, I've never really rated him. If we're going to play a holding midfielder, then it's Barry, or if he's up to it Wilshere in what was his original position.

What they have in an attacking game more than makes up for the additional defensive ability of Hargreaves, imho.

[Seal]

Hart
Smalling Ferdinand Terry Cole
Gerrard Wilshere
Walcott Rooney Young
Bent

Fedinand if fit is still the best centre half in England.

Goals up top.

Believe Wilshere & Gerrard have the physicality and energy to play the holding role together.

[Hoop Blah]

Hart, Foster

Smalling, A Cole, Terry, Cahill, Jones, Jagielka, Baines, G Johnson

Parker, Lampard, Hargreaves, Gerrard, Young, A Johnson, Barry, Walcott, Wilshere

Rooney, Bent, Crouch, Welbeck

Starting XI of

Hart

Smalling
Cahill
Terry
A Cole

Parker
Hargreaves

Young
Wilshere
A Johnson

Rooney

Couple of interesting ones there BF.

I like the idea that Jagielka is an injury and suspension away from being in goal for the European Championships Final! Unfortunately though, I think the 23 has to include a third keeper otherwise you're only allowed to take 22 (the third keeper was added at some point years ago but I think a country tried to only take 2 to South Africa and weren't allowed).

I agree on a lot of the starting eleven too, although not sure on Smalling at right back yet. Time will tell and it's a position that's really open to someone having a good run of form.

Like comonurz I think Gerrard still has quite a role to play in this team and if Rooney remains as the centre forward I'd see a midfield 3 of Parker (or Hargreaves if he can get back to form and fitnesss - which I doubt), Wilshire and Gerrard (in the advanced position) as our strongest. As well as Downing has played for the last 6 months or so I'd still rather Adam Johnson and Young as the wingers.

I'd still prefer Rooney to be playing in the hole behind a proper centre forward but I'm not convinced on any of the current options being quite the rigth fit. I'm not a Welbeck fan, and Bent isn't quite the answer. For me that leaves Carroll. Problem with him is that his strengths might not fit to the quicker and more intricate football we seem to be moving towards.

I think my starting 11 would be

Hart
Richards, Cahill, Terry, Cole
Johnson, Parker, Wilshire, Young
Gerrard
Rooney

Rest of the squad being

Foster, Carson (should probably be the best of the young keepers really)
Walker, Jones, Ferdinand,
Milner, Hargreaves (or Barry when he fails at City), Downing, Walcott
Carroll, Defoe, Sturidge

Quite a few who just miss out though.

[Hoop Blah]

Just a personal preference for not-Hargreaves, I've never really rated him. If we're going to play a holding midfielder, then it's Barry, or if he's up to it Wilshere in what was his original position.

What they have in an attacking game more than makes up for the additional defensive ability of Hargreaves, imho.

Fair enough. I'd disagree on the extra attacking ability Barry or Parker can bring as I think Hargreaves is (I think that's a was btw) a very good player who was never really given the credit he deserved over here because he didn't play in the Premier League.

I still don't understand why that would mean you didn't want him to suceed at City and give us an option though.

[cmonurz]

It came across as vindictive when it wasn't - Capello has been a bit one-eyed about some players in his tenure as England boss, he's had a bit of a wake up at the World Cup and finally seems to be coming around to the changes required. I just don't want to see England go backwards. Could Hargeaves do a job at United still? Too right, if he got fit, but Fergie is looking to the future, and I'd like Capello to do the same.

[Big Foot]

For me it's Hargreaves > Parker > Barry

[Hoop Blah]

Agree on looking forward comonurz, but we do need to live in the present as well. I think it's a moot point as I can't imagine Hargreaves can get back to where he was.

BF, agree on those pecking list although I'd also agree with those that have said Gerrard and Wilshire maybe the two that can do the job.

I've been hoping that Cattermole would kick on a bit as he seems to be the one with the right attributes from the next generation. I think Rodwell or a fit Huddlestone might be the one that comes through though, although from what I've seen Rodwell doesn't live up to the hype and obviously Huddlestone isn't the most athletic.

[papereyes]

Too much weight placed on championship qualifiers by the looks of it.

Friendly = 1
Qualifier = 2.5
Euros = 3
World Cup = 4

It is here and in the Confederation rankings where human opinion comes in and wherethey get a bit screwed. Euros is probably a similar level to World Cup, I think they over-rate every confederation other than UEFA and CONMEBOL (as most World Cups tend to back up).

What's important is that it is a formula - England do well in the ratings because they score points by the system. That's all.

[Big Foot]

Agree on looking forward comonurz, but we do need to live in the present as well. I think it's a moot point as I can't imagine Hargreaves can get back to where he was.

BF, agree on those pecking list although I'd also agree with those that have said Gerrard and Wilshire maybe the two that can do the job.

I've been hoping that Cattermole would kick on a bit as he seems to be the one with the right attributes from the next generation. I think Rodwell or a fit Huddlestone might be the one that comes through though, although from what I've seen Rodwell doesn't live up to the hype and obviously Huddlestone isn't the most athletic.

Rodwell is very over-rated IMO - had this discussion the other week with a m8 that he rarely seems to grab games by the scruff of the neck or rarely has pundits talking about his display in a match, unlike the likes of Wilshere. I reckon Rodwell is a steady 6or7/10 player but rarely gets above that.

Huddlestone is good but not mobile enough for International game (as you alluded to). Cattermole at International level? LOL no f*cking chance

[Royal Rother]

Agreed. We can't afford to play a large part of the game with 10 men on the pitch.

[papereyes]

Cattermole at International level? LOL no f*cking chance

I read somewhere that he'd been booked in 1/3 of all his professional games.

As they put it, he is that sort of a player.

[Hoop Blah]

What's important is that it is a formula - England do well in the ratings because they score points by the system. That's all.

And, in the last 2 years I think we've only lost 4 games (Ukraine, Germany, Brazil and France). In that time we've beaten the highly ranked Croatia and Mexico and also drew with the Dutch.

Compare that to the Argies and in the same time they've lost to Brazil, Paraguay, Spain (they also beat them), Germany (4-0 as well, but they've also beaten them), Nigeria and Poland. That's 6 defeats and 3 of them against supposedly weaker teams.

Italy's record is much the same. 4 loses (Mexico, Slovakia, Ivory Coast, Ireland) and some pretty dire draws too, including N.Ireland, New Zealand and twice against the Swiss.

Brazil aren't ammune either, although their loses aren't as bad as some. They've still lost 5 games though (Bolivia, Holland, Argentina, France and Germany) plus some very narrow wins against teams you'd expect them to score hatfuls against.

Uraguay, the up and coming stars apparently, have an even worse record. 8 losses against Algeria, Peru, Argentina, Holland, Germany, Chile, Estonia and Germany.

Unless you want the rankings to reward points for style, potential and media reports, as opposed to results, then I don't think there's much wrong with them.

[Hoop Blah]

I've got a lot of time for Cattermole. Admittedly I think I'm in a bit of a minority on that one!

IF, and that's a massive IF, he can curb his enthusiasm to control his aggression and time his tackles a bit more I think he's a really good player.

Totally agree on Rodwell BF. The game passes him by too much. He's always just a yard away from being in the right place to make a tackle but is never there. I've said before that I think he looks more like a centre half who can't quite be trusted there rather than a natural midfielder. If his passing and reading of the game was a bit better then yes he'd probably make a good holding midfield but at the moment he's just like a poor mans Carrick.

[Royal Rother]

Unless you want the rankings to reward points for style, potential and media reports, as opposed to results, then I don't think there's much wrong with them.

Agreed. Very comprehensive and reasonable points system.

It just comes up with the wrong result because we aren't the 4th best team in the World.

IMO.

[ZacNaloen]

Is the team that finishes fourth in the premier league always the fourth best team in the premier league?

Sometimes it's just the way the points add up.

[Hoop Blah]

Unless you want the rankings to reward points for style, potential and media reports, as opposed to results, then I don't think there's much wrong with them.

Agreed. Very comprehensive and reasonable points system.

It just comes up with the wrong result because we aren't the 4th best team in the World.

IMO.

What is your top 4, or even better still, top 10 then RR? Just out of interest.

I agree that if there was a round robin tournament amongst the top 10 or so international sides right now we'd probably not win enough of them to finish in the top 4.

[Royal Rother]

Something like this:

Spain
Germany
Holland
Argentina
Brazil
Uruguay
France
Chile
Portugal
Italy
England / Mexico

[Seal]

Something like this:

Spain
Germany
Holland
Argentina
Brazil
Uruguay
France
Chile
Portugal
Italy
England / Mexico

Can't see what Italy, France & Portugal have done in recent memory to be above England.

Likewise Argentina, who are even more of a let down than England when you look at their team on paper.

Chile have had a good run but ultimately come up short against the top opposition.

I'd go for:

Spain
Germany
Holland
Uruguay
Brazil
England
Argentina
Italy
Portugal
France