England Vs Wales

[Hoop Blah]

So, having looked at the players people have mentioned, plus those players I can remember being in various squads or a few potentials I've added, I think the pool of players in contention is something like this:

Keepers
Hart, Foster, Carson, Green, Robinson, Stockdale, Fieding

Right Backs
Johnson, Richards, Walker, Smalling, Kelly

Left Backs
Cole, Baines, Gibbs, Bertrand, Warnock

Centre Backs
Ferdinand, Terry, Cahill, Jones, Lescott, Jegielka, Smalling, Woodgate, Dawson

Wingers
Johnson, Young, Walcott, Downing, Lennon, Wright-Phillips, Jarvis

Midfielders
Gerrard, Wilshire, Parker, Barry, Lampard, Milner, Cleverly, Hargreaves, Henderson, Carrick

Forwards
Rooney, Bent, Carroll, Defoe, Welbeck, Crouch, Sturridge, Zamora

Doesn't look like a talent pool to have the Spanish running for the hills I admit, but there are some decent players in there.

[Stranded]

Always liked these rankings:

http://www.eloratings.net/world.html

Has a top ten of

Spain
Netherlands
Germany
Brazil
Uruguay
England
Argentina
Chile
Portugal
Croatia

Games weighted based on competition and expected result.

Top 10 not too different, but notable moves see Wales up in 77th on these rankings.

[leww_rfc]

Always liked these rankings:

http://www.eloratings.net/world.html

Has a top ten of

Spain
Netherlands
Germany
Brazil
Uruguay
England
Argentina
Chile
Portugal
Croatia

Games weighted based on competition and expected result.

Top 10 not too different, but notable moves see Wales up in 77th on these rankings.

Wales actually above another Home nation there with NI in 86th.

[Ian Royal]

I think the Germans would have just turned it on again.

You would think that, wouldn't you!

Given they were my second team at the tournament and I thought they were a damn sight better and more likeable than England, hell yes.

[AthleticoSpizz]

..and also probably a darned sight more Polish and Turkish

[Ian Royal]

..and also probably a darned sight more Polish and Turkish

boofeckinghoo.

[AthleticoSpizz]

..and also probably a darned sight more Polish and Turkish

boofeckinghoo.

WAS?

[TheMaraudingDog]

HavAing watched the game yesterday I'm going to have to change my stance and write Jones >>>>>>> Cahill.

Cahill is one of these players English divs love because he puts his head in where it hurts and makes last ditch slide tackles. When confronted with quick intelligent movement though he was well and truly left embarrassed all afternoon.

Jones will be up against Rooney, Hernandez, Young and Nani in training every day so will be far better equipped to deal with top class opposition than fans favourite Cahill.

Cahill, the Centre Back equivalent of Stuart Pearce the manager.

[Royal Rother]

You amaze me.

[SpaceCruiser]

Nothing amazes the Mekon, surely.

[TheMaraudingDog]

You amaze me.

[Ian Royal]

Nothing amazes the Mekon, surely.

I've just figured it out. You actually fancy Rother and want to put your sausage in his brown bap and are frustrated because you know he's unatainable.

[Row Z Royal]

[Hoop Blah]

HavAing watched the game yesterday I'm going to have to change my stance and write Jones >>>>>>> Cahill.

Cahill is one of these players English divs love because he puts his head in where it hurts and makes last ditch slide tackles. When confronted with quick intelligent movement though he was well and truly left embarrassed all afternoon.

Jones will be up against Rooney, Hernandez, Young and Nani in training every day so will be far better equipped to deal with top class opposition than fans favourite Cahill.

Cahill, the Centre Back equivalent of Stuart Pearce the manager.

I think Jones will surpass Cahill in the medium to long term but, once you watch Jones a bit more, you'll see that he's just that same player you describe Cahill as, at the moment.

For both Blackburn last season and England U21s over the summer Jones reading of the game and willingness to throw himself in for a block were his strengths. He was constantly making last ditch lunges and covering tackles.

Given time I think Jones will become an excellent defender but right now I'd say you were right with Cahill > Jones.

[FiNeRaIn]

Given time I think Jones will become an excellent defender but right now I'd say you were right with Cahill > Jones.

He didn't say that at all though, he was stating the opposite

Despite his usual bias for United, I think he's right with this one. Cahill is a solid prem defender, nothing more. Jones looks to have the full skill-set in his locker, is younger and is playing in europe as well as top of the table games. Given that smalling is also a huge talent, I'd prefer to have both of these two in the England team together as they will be developing an understanding for club also. Both of these are serious prospects, cahill has maximised his potential as a good prem defender nothing more imo.

[Hoop Blah]

I was refering back to TMDs original agreement that for now Cahill would get in ahead of Jones (could've made that clearer in my post though).

I'm a massive fan of Jones, and think that he and Smalling will make an excellent pairing....in 3 or 4 years time. Right now I'd say they're both a little too inexperienced to oust Terry, Ferdinand or Cahill from the side. I would keep them in the squad to help bring them along and make them comfortable with the different culture around playing with England.

As for Jones playing in Europe, he won't play that often just yet, and the games he does play won't be the ones against the better opposition where he'll come up against much he hasn't already for the U21s and Blackburn.

For now, and up to next summers tournament, I think the 3 more experienced players should, and will, get the nod but a lot will change after the Euro's and when the new manager takes over. Cahill will then need to be the man to build the defence around for a couple of years as both Terry and Ferdinand will probably eased out for the likes of Smalling and Jones (the long term partnership for club and country I'd imagine).

[cmonurz]

Agree completely with that post HB (although if Cahill had surpassed Terry as first-choice by Euro 2012 I wouldn't be surprised) - I think it's interesting though that these two future England centre-backs Smalling and Jones are, respectively, playing at right-back (and very effectively too), and getting two assists with marauding runs forward from defence at Bolton. Confident, skilful, ball-playing defenders, it's very European!

[Hoop Blah]

I'm a big fan of players playing a bit out of position to enhance their understanding of the game, and Fergie doing that with these two is great in my eyes. Both looked comfortable at the U21s as well, especially Jones. Smalling looked for the hollywood ball a little too much but that should come with experience.

The only worry is that they go the same way as Micah Richards who, at the same stage or perhaps even earlier in his career, was doing even better.

[Hoop Blah]

Not sure about that Ideal. He's had a few injuries over the years yes, but I'm not sure his knees are shot in the way you imply. I've not read or heard anything to suggest he's missing training or being nursed through fixture congestion in the way someone like Ledley King is. His knee injury was only cartilage damage anyway, that's not quite as serious as some and doesn't usually mean any long lasting damage or problems (he may be in the small minority that do continue to have issues of course).

The improvements that Richards needs to make aren't about training intensly anyway, they're about learning from his mistakes and experiences on the pitch. He's looked a lot more consistent and controlled in what he's doing the last few games I've watched, and that's shown he is perhaps now learning.

I think his lack of progress stemmed from believing his own hype a bit too much and getting carried away with doing things he shouldn't have been. He's also probably suffered from trying to play centre half too much too soon when his style seems more suited to being a fullback.

[ZacNaloen]

If his Knee's are shot he needs to lose a lot of that muscle he's carrying, that fact he isn't suggests his knees aren't that bad just yet.