England Friendlies

[sandman]

Weak Central Midfield including a 33 year old player who should be on the bench as Beckham was near the end. Two centre backs aren't getting younger and back injuries have left them both with the turning circle of 30 stone 90 year old.

Any real life England manager should build their team around Wilshere for the next decade. He's the only player you have with a footballing brain so he'll probably get shunted out to the left wing like the last player who was technically gifted.

[melonhead]

Not long ago (well, a while, but I remember it), that we were comfortably beating Spain 3-0 at home. Ugo Ehiogu scored iirc.

10 years

which is what he said innit?

[melonhead]

If I was to pick the england side it would be easy.

Hart

A Cole
John Terry
Rio Ferdinand
P Jones

Lampard
Rooney
Barry
A young

Welbeck
Sturridge


All from the best 3 teams in the Country.

get rid of ferdinand, hes shot, replace with jagielka/lescott/jones etc, as jones is a better cb, and id have richards/walker/johnson at RB

id go 5 in the middle, with 2 wingers rather than lamps out there opposite young
that way we can have parker holding, rooney behind the lone striker
and depending on how good the team we are playing its either wilshere/lampard, or another more defensive player, or a ball player like barry/carrick
its flexible, and plays to the nations, and the individual players strengths

sorted

[RobRoyal]

If I was to pick the england side it would be easy.

Hart

A Cole
John Terry
Rio Ferdinand
P Jones

Lampard
Rooney
Barry
A young

Welbeck
Sturridge


All from the best 3 teams in the Country.

Jesus, what the hell is that?

[rhroyal]

I wonder if any other countries would bicker as much after beating the world champions.

The fault lies entirely with those who have made the English public so disullushioned with their football team, which basically means that the media, management and players should share the blame. If we'd felt proud of our country at all recently we'd be congratulating them gladly, but this is the first moment to be proud of we've had since beating Argentina in 2002. And it's a friendly.

Maybe if the players in the past 9 years had appeared to care half as much for their country as their clubs, we'd be behind them more. Kudos to the youngsters and Scott Parker for breaking the trend against Spain; if it continues then maybe you'll see the country support the overpaid players more.

[melonhead]

I wonder if any other countries would bicker as much after beating the world champions.

The fault lies entirely with those who have made the English public so disullushioned with their football team, which basically means that the media, management and players should share the blame. If we'd felt proud of our country at all recently we'd be congratulating them gladly, but this is the first moment to be proud of we've had since beating Argentina in 2002. And it's a friendly.

Maybe if the players in the past 9 years had appeared to care half as much for their country as their clubs, we'd be behind them more. Kudos to the youngsters and Scott Parker for breaking the trend against Spain; if it continues then maybe you'll see the country support the overpaid players more.

i personally think that the dissilusionment and apathy is our best weapon. for too long weve laboured under the daft misapprehension that we should be the greatest team on earth, and now we arent thinking that any more,and there is no pressure, it gives the players the freedom to go out and become exactly that

or something

[TBM]

I wonder if any other countries would bicker as much after beating the world champions.

The thing is, it was just a friendly - its a typical English mentality (which stems from grass roots) that we MUST win no matter what. Take Saturday mornings when the 8 years olds are running around the pitch, the manager/parents etc are far more concerned about winning the game than actually developing players.

We wont get better as a team until we change that - who cares if we lost 5-0 to Spain if it meant we actually played some nice football.

IF we get these results next year and win the Euro's then fine but the fact is, playing like that, we wont.

[Hoop Blah]

We wont get better as a team until we change that - who cares if we lost 5-0 to Spain if it meant we actually played some nice football.

IF we get these results next year and win the Euro's then fine but the fact is, playing like that, we wont.

At the senior level just playing nice football doesn't get you anywhere. What we needed from the game was part of what we got. A lesson in how to snuff out an excellent side and start to work on a method of play we can use when needed.

I don't want to see England go out having played nice football if by being a little more savvy we can actually stop the opposition winning. Accepting that we might not be able to take Spain on at their own game with the current sets of players both nations have is a step forward.

I've seen enough of England try and play their own game and come up short. I'd rather see us be a with little more discipline and 'tactical awareness' if it means we've a better chance of getting further in a tournament.

Totally agree that at kids level it has to be more about getting kids their basics right than just winning a game. From what I've seen over the last 20 years I think that's certainly more the case now (it certainly is if you watch a lot of the training). They do also need to develop a competitive instinct as well though, and they do need to enjoy it, and the competitive side to football is where a lot of the enjoyment comes from.

[TBM]

We wont get better as a team until we change that - who cares if we lost 5-0 to Spain if it meant we actually played some nice football.

IF we get these results next year and win the Euro's then fine but the fact is, playing like that, we wont.

At the senior level just playing nice football doesn't get you anywhere. What we needed from the game was part of what we got. A lesson in how to snuff out an excellent side and start to work on a method of play we can use when needed.

I don't want to see England go out having played nice football if by being a little more savvy we can actually stop the opposition winning. Accepting that we might not be able to take Spain on at their own game with the current sets of players both nations have is a step forward.

I've seen enough of England try and play their own game and come up short. I'd rather see us be a with little more discipline and 'tactical awareness' if it means we've a better chance of getting further in a tournament.

Totally agree that at kids level it has to be more about getting kids their basics right than just winning a game. From what I've seen over the last 20 years I think that's certainly more the case now (it certainly is if you watch a lot of the training). They do also need to develop a competitive instinct as well though, and they do need to enjoy it, and the competitive side to football is where a lot of the enjoyment comes from.

Thats fair enough. If we actually do this "job" and win something i will hold my hands up.....but how many times can we play a game like that and expect to win the tournament - i bet the players were mentally and physically exhausted after this [Spain] game, imagine next they had to do the same thing today against Germany, and then 3 days after that Holland

I think with kids they shouldn't play 11-a-side until they are about 14/15 years old - playing 7-a-side will allow every player to be involved, improve their game/touch/skill/technique but also has that competitive edge to win but isn't as important.

[melonhead]

We wont get better as a team until we change that - who cares if we lost 5-0 to Spain if it meant we actually played some nice football.

IF we get these results next year and win the Euro's then fine but the fact is, playing like that, we wont.

id rather win. dont care if we tap it around the back for for an hour to do that. in fact idf prefer if we didnt

italy have won multiple world cups playing defensively
greece won the euros in organsised, dour fashion
denmark were hardly amazing

winning tournaments is about taking some form and confidence into it, gathering momentum through it,having a proper well balanced and together team of players in it, and getting a little bit of luck when required.
anyone can do it

[TBM]

We wont get better as a team until we change that - who cares if we lost 5-0 to Spain if it meant we actually played some nice football.

IF we get these results next year and win the Euro's then fine but the fact is, playing like that, we wont.

id rather win. dont care if we tap it around the back for for an hour to do that. in fact idf prefer if we didnt

italy have won multiple world cups playing defensively
greece won the euros in organsised, dour fashion
denmark were hardly amazing

winning tournaments is about taking some form and confidence into it, gathering momentum through it,having a proper well balanced and together team of players in it, and getting a little bit of luck when required.
anyone can do it

You cant compare us to Italy, yes they are solid defensively but they had quality going forward too....

I'll give you Greece and Denmark but do you honestly think they would win it again? - especially with the likes of Holland, Spain, Germany being as good as they currently are.

Am just saying if we play this defensive game in the euro's next year, we may pull off 1 result but certainly wont win it....

[Svlad Cjelli]

Surely the ultimate aim is to be able to change styles/systems to be able to defeat the opposition?

Football is like a game of rock, paper, scissors, so you need to be able to play differently depending on who you're playing.

But I don't think England have the mental or technical ability to be able to switch styles as much as needed to be successful, the players are far too set in their ways.

[Hoop Blah]

Thats fair enough. If we actually do this "job" and win something i will hold my hands up.....

It's about giving us the best chance of winning. The success of failure of playing with a bit more defensive discipline like this won't be actually winning a tournament but being in a better position to do so with the players available.

but how many times can we play a game like that and expect to win the tournament - i bet the players were mentally and physically exhausted after this [Spain] game, imagine next they had to do the same thing today against Germany, and then 3 days after that Holland

It might not be something we do for every game but I don't think it's signifcantly more exhausting that going out there and playing our normal game in those same games. To progress in any tournament is hard work.

I think with kids they shouldn't play 11-a-side until they are about 14/15 years old - playing 7-a-side will allow every player to be involved, improve their game/touch/skill/technique but also has that competitive edge to win but isn't as important.

I agree. We're pretty much in line with the rest of Europe of the size of teams and pitches though from what I remember last time I looked into it when it was discussed before. Training and coaching, and getting kids just kicking a ball around again, is probably more important than the 80 minutes they play in a game though (having said that the very good kids end up playing a lot of games each week so probably the games are a bit more important to their development - something else that needs to be kept in check really)

[TBM]

The FA need to invest in coaches....it costs around £7k to get a pro licence, not to mention the cost to get to that stage. Then if someone passes their pro-badge they are not guaranteed a job at the end of it - instead teams give jobs to ex-professional footballers so the interest of somebody taking a coaching course is getting lower and lower. The FA should be funding part of the coaching and then taking these coaches and setting up development centres across the country for the young kids - rather than letting the likes of Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal etc snapping them up at 7/8 years old meaning we cant train these players to an "English style" that we would like the national team to play.

[cmonurz]

Read an article in the Times last week about pitch sizes - the new director of the development of the youth game in England is pushing through a programme that he says will ensure that by 2014, no child under the age of 13 is playing matches on a full-sized pitch. He is introducing a sliding scale - it was something like 9-a-side for 11 and 12 year olds, 7-a-side for the two age groups lower, and 5-a-side below that, all on progressively smaller pitches.

[Svlad Cjelli]

The FA are expecting the lowest ever England attendance at the new Wembley, beating the 57,897 for Andorra 6-0 in June 2009 (the tube-strike match). Only 50,000 tickets sold so far.

[Hoop Blah]

The FA need to invest in coaches....it costs around £7k to get a pro licence, not to mention the cost to get to that stage. Then if someone passes their pro-badge they are not guaranteed a job at the end of it - instead teams give jobs to ex-professional footballers so the interest of somebody taking a coaching course is getting lower and lower. The FA should be funding part of the coaching and then taking these coaches and setting up development centres across the country for the young kids - rather than letting the likes of Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal etc snapping them up at 7/8 years old meaning we cant train these players to an "English style" that we would like the national team to play.

You don't need a pro licence to be a coach though so that £7k is a bit misleading.

The level 1 course isn't expensive at about £150. It's not very good either mind.

The level 2 course, which I think is the level that RR was talking about our numbers being way below others, is again only about £350 I think.

The level 3, which is also the UEFA B, is about the same price too.

That's decent prices for starting out on any course, be it football, photography or DIY.

I agree with you and RR, to an extent, that we need more coaches making football enjoyable for our kids whilst also getting the basics of their technique right. I'm not sure the FA courses really get that right as I'm not sure they turn out good coaches.

[Hoop Blah]

The FA are expecting the lowest ever England attendance at the new Wembley, beating the 57,897 for Andorra 6-0 in June 2009 (the tube-strike match). Only 50,000 tickets sold so far.

I quite fancied taking in one of these games but just had other things on I couldn't move.

It's hardly surprising that tonights fixture is going to suffer though. We've just played the best team in the world on a weekend afternoon and tickets, although discounted, still aren't cheap so getting along on a Tuesday night to watch a pretty average Sweden side isn't the most appealing!

[melonhead]

Surely the ultimate aim is to be able to change styles/systems to be able to defeat the opposition?

Football is like a game of rock, paper, scissors, so you need to be able to play differently depending on who you're playing.

But I don't think England have the mental or technical ability to be able to switch styles as much as needed to be successful, the players are far too set in their ways.

which is why playing a flexible system like 451/433 is our best bet

[TBM]

You don't need a pro licence to be a coach though so that £7k is a bit misleading.

no you're right, sorry but i meant that most people would be put off to start if they were only going to stop half way....give them an incentive to become a first team coach/manager of a club but then use them to coach the kids along the way (ie, we will pay for your pro-licence if you coach the kids for X years)