England Friendlies

[cmonurz]

We're hardly over-stocked with goalkeeping talent. As inconsistent as Carson is, he has to be a better option as backup than an untested Stockdale, for example.

[melonhead]

Disagree. Wilshere should be an absolute shoe-in IMO.

apologies, forgot wishere in the attacking midfield spot ahead of rodwell

He won't be playing in the more advanced roll in a 3, he'll be more likely to sit alongside someone like Parker and be getting on the ball as much as possible to dictate the game and make us tick.

He doesn't score enough goals to play that bit further forward where someone like Gerrard, Lampard or Rooney would be more comfortable (in a few years time it'll probably be the likes of Henderson, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Cleverly or Barkley working infront of the Rodwells, Wilshires and McEachrans coming through).

On that note, the players that are coming through do seem to be more technical players than they were a few years back. Perhaps that shows that the work done by the FA is showing some sign of success (without being a finished job of course).

or that clubs are now looking for slightly more than just big athletes in their yoof, due to the current vogue for tippy tappy passy midfield types

[Hoop Blah]

or that clubs are now looking for slightly more than just big athletes in their yoof, due to the current vogue for tippy tappy passy midfield types

Yes but that's why the FA have put into place a lot of changes over the last 10 years or so to pretty much 'make' clubs produce more technically proficient players.

The whole point of the Academy system was to improve the technique of the players our system was producing.

[FiNeRaIn]

Barkley needs to get to Arsenal or the Spanish league ASAP or he's ruined IMO. They'll just train him to be a physical machine concentrating on purely winning rather than actually playing technical football. Needs to do a rooney and GTFO.

[RobRoyal]

City have gone out and spent money to improve themselves which you can't do in international football so my opinion that England and Sweden, as footballing nations, are evenly matched still holds up against your ill-thought-out argument. You're all getting over-excited yet again this time about a group who've come up from an Under-21 squad that failed to get out of their group at the European U-21 Championships last summer. It's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I don't really care.

It seems you have to be a card carrying member of the EDL on this thread and if you don't subscribe to the notion that England have a chance of winning the Euros because they've unconvincingly won a friendly against Spain and beaten Sweden or the first time in decades through an own goal then you should be thrown in the tower.That state of exasperation with the whole thread was what the rolly eyes were for.

In that case you need to adjust your aim. My comments above have absolutely nothing to do with being excited about England, and everything to do with identifying a poor Sweden side who were lucky to to concede three. How you can look at the Rodwell chance(s), Jones miss, Bent header, and think otherwise is beyond me. FWIW I'm so sick of England that the win over Spain gave me not a flicker of joy, so the EDL comment is spectacularly wide of the mark. England have next to no chance of winning the Euros. Sweden have a little less than that.

My point of contention is the idea that "footballing nations" have a natural standing that makes historical comparisons worthwhile. I dislike it when ideas like that are thrown out there without any argument as to why this should be the case. Why does a match played before any of the current players were born have any relevance? Something to do with national character? (:roll:)

Football is played by players, not nations.

[sandman]

If you can't alter the quality of your resources (or how you use them) how have the likes of Spain and Turkey massively turned around their international performances then sandman?

Not what I'm saying and if it came across like that then it wasn't intentional.

It's been pretty well documented already how they've improved. It's through hard work, understanding and coaching the technical side of the game rather than a focus on winning. They don't, for instance, put 8 year olds on full sized pitches in full sized goals and shout at them when they don't hit long.

They've embraced ideas from foreign sources like the Dutch instead of bickering about them and focusing on their wages like the English have done with Capello. The way Barcelona play was introduced by Johan Cruyff when he took over Barca in 88.

The clubs work with the national team by releasing players for tournaments that will improve their understanding of tournament football. Xavi, Casillas, Torres, Ramos and Iniesta have all competed in and won major tournaments at youth level. Compare that with the likes of Wilshere and Carroll who were withdrawn from the last under-21 tournament. Perhaps the best example with England is David Bentley who withdrew from one U-21 Tournament because he thought it might harm his chances at senior level.

Spain teach players how to play the game whereas we are focused on winning. If you even suggest treating the game like that in this country you're accused of being a "Bleeding heart liberal".

The focus is on the clubs as the EPPP debate has shown. In Spain it wouldn't be given a second thought, they would just do it for the sake of the national team but over here we have protests focusing on stopping it. One of the main argument's is that it will turn into La liga and only two teams will dominate because they'll have all the talent but 2004 was the last time anyone other than United or Chelski won the League and before that it was eight seasons since anyone other than United or Arsenal won it. If you focus on creating the right environment players will stick with you after all the likes of Jordan Obita and James Henry rejected big clubs to stay with Reading because they felt an affinity with their club.

Believe it or not I want England to improve. Although I criticized it England have a defensive base as the Spain game showed but need to focus on players who can keep the ball and have imaginative ways of creating chances.

For those who, "can't be bothered to read all that", we talk about improving our resources and altering our quality while other countries do it. Even when we do talk the football it quickly devolves into being about who remembers 66, who's in the team, who's shagging which team mates missus and reading interview's with Bobby Charlton or Geoff Hurst about how great Bobby Moore was.

*Edit*

This is my last post on the subject.

[Hoop Blah]

City have gone out and spent money to improve themselves which you can't do in international football so my opinion that England and Sweden, as footballing nations, are evenly matched still holds up against your ill-thought-out argument.

That bit pretty much says that nations can't change their lot yet your post above is a lot more accurate in then sense that it shows exactly how it can be done.

I disagree that all we do in England is talk about how to improve. A lot of things have been put in place in the Academy structure to try and catch up with the technical ability of other European countries.

[Simon's Church]

Barkley needs to get to Arsenal or the Spanish league ASAP or he's ruined IMO. They'll just train him to be a physical machine concentrating on purely winning rather than actually playing technical football. Needs to do a rooney and GTFO.

If they haven't done that by the time he's almost 18 why would they start now?

[RoyalJames101]

Wilshere, Cleverley, Lampard, Parker. Between them 4. Still have no clue what our best defence would be though.

[LoyalRoyalFan]

Cleverley shouldn't be anywhere near the squad at the moment.

Rodwell is a better option.

[winchester_royal]

Cleverley shouldn't be anywhere near the squad at the moment.

Rodwell is a better option.

How'd you work that one out?

[RoyalJames101]

Cleverley shouldn't be anywhere near the squad at the moment.

Rodwell is a better option.

One of United's best players this season.

[Hoop Blah]

Cleverley shouldn't be anywhere near the squad at the moment.

Rodwell is a better option.

I think both have a bit to prove before they earn a place in the squad this time rounds.

Both should feature quite a bit for the new man in charge after the summer though.

[Seal]

Cleverley shouldn't be anywhere near the squad at the moment.

Rodwell is a better option.

One of United's best players this season.

He's played 4/11 league games. Don't get me wrong he looked very good in those 4, but bit early to be saying he's a shoe in for England centre mid. If he plays consistently well for the rest of the season then great, but not yet.

Assuming everyone is fit, I would like to see a starting 11 as follows:-

Hart
Walker Jones Terry Cole
Parker
Gerrard Wilshere
Walcott Young
Bent (Rooney after suspension)

Biggest debates for me are centre half and Gerrard v Lamps in midfield

Actually looks like quite a decent side!

[Hoop Blah]

Agree with that Seal.

I think Terry needs to up his game to ward of the challenge from Jones, Cahil and Lecott (who seems to be doing alright for City this season). Being skipper and the only experienced centre half who's really playing I think he'll be safe.

I'd rather Walcott isn't in the side personally and I think either Downing or Jonhson, or Milner if we need to be a bit more solid.

[cmonurz]

Also agreed with Seal's team.

[Ian Royal]

Largely agree apart from centre defence. Not really seen Jones play there and would rather have Cahill, Jagielka or Lescott than Terry, although that is mostly because I just don't like him.

[winchester_royal]

Choosing the two CB's is all about the partnership IMO. And going by that I'd have Jagielka and Lescott.

My team:

Hart

Walker
Jagielka
Lescott
Cole

Parker
Wilshere

Walcott
Gerrard
Young

Rooney/Bent

[Hoop Blah]

Interestingly, Josh McEachran may be going to Swansea on loan in January.

It's about time someone took him from Chelsea and gave him games.

[Big Foot]

Choosing the two CB's is all about the partnership IMO. And going by that I'd have Jagielka and Lescott.

My team:

Hart

Walker
Jagielka
Lescott
Cole

Parker
Wilshere

Walcott
Gerrard
Young

Rooney/Bent

Agree with that team, based on merit. However, wouldn't feel comfortable with 80% of the first choice back 5 having never played in a major tournament before.