Rumour - Steve Coppell

[sandman]

Why? Because I told everyone Coppell had to go because his heart wasn't in it and he was taking us backwards for him to turn up at Bristol City and prove exactly that? For me to tell everyone Rodgers shouldn't have been sacked and was a good manager to see his side beat us in the playoff final playing far superior football to us and making a great start to Premier League life? Coppell's an average manager who picks his jobs and has no plan B when the going gets tough, nice guy and all that but ultimately a bottlejob.

It wasn't Rodgers side it was Martinez's and the philosophy was originally his as well.

[Royalee]

Why? Because I told everyone Coppell had to go because his heart wasn't in it and he was taking us backwards for him to turn up at Bristol City and prove exactly that? For me to tell everyone Rodgers shouldn't have been sacked and was a good manager to see his side beat us in the playoff final playing far superior football to us and making a great start to Premier League life? Coppell's an average manager who picks his jobs and has no plan B when the going gets tough, nice guy and all that but ultimately a bottlejob.

It wasn't Rodgers side it was Martinez's and the philosophy was originally his as well.

'' '' Pardew's side with Coppell.

[sandman]

In which case and using your logic. Coppell was Pardew's mentor so Pardew's team was already Coppells'.

[Vision]

In which case and using your logic. Coppell was Pardew's mentor so Pardew's team was already Coppells'.

Didn't Rodgers work under both Pardew and Coppell so therefore all his success is down to us. Add the fact that we gave em a 3 goal head start in the play-off final and its quite clear that Swansea's success is all down to Coppell and Reading. In fact I don't know how they have the nerve to still call themselves Swansea given that its all our doing really. Shameful.

Swansea Jack definitely agrees with this but I think Royalee is far too blinkered to see the obvious.

[Ian Royal]

Why? Because I told everyone Coppell had to go because his heart wasn't in it and he was taking us backwards for him to turn up at Bristol City and prove exactly that? For me to tell everyone Rodgers shouldn't have been sacked and was a good manager to see his side beat us in the playoff final playing far superior football to us and making a great start to Premier League life? Coppell's an average manager who picks his jobs and has no plan B when the going gets tough, nice guy and all that but ultimately a bottlejob.

It wasn't Rodgers side it was Martinez's and the philosophy was originally his as well.

'' '' Pardew's side with Coppell.

Excellent post with one minor exception. It's utter turd.

Pardew is the man who developed 4-5-1 with us to great success. A formation Coppell did not favour. Pardew was about bigging the players up and making them believe they were brilliant. A style Coppell did not favour. The main first team for Coppell's promotion was made up of 17 players of which 11 were signed by Coppell, not Pardew. Care to do a comparison to Rodgers promotion team?

[sandman]

Martinez signed players from their Promotion squad:
De Vries
Rangel
Williams
Allen
Dyer
Dobbie
Serran
Gower
Bodde
Orlandi
Bessone

The likes of Tate and Monk were there before Martinez was manager but did play with him so obviously knew a lot about him and the passing philosphy that he favoured.

[Royal With Cheese]

Why bother responding to Royalee's inaccurate rubbish. He's been posting it for years and isn't going to change.

[Hoop Blah]

Excellent post with one minor exception. It's utter turd.

Pardew is the man who developed 4-5-1 with us to great success. A formation Coppell did not favour. Pardew was about bigging the players up and making them believe they were brilliant. A style Coppell did not favour. The main first team for Coppell's promotion was made up of 17 players of which 11 were signed by Coppell, not Pardew. Care to do a comparison to Rodgers promotion team?

If you're going to slate peoples posts for being inaccurate you could at least get you're facts straight.

Pardew played 4-5-1 for the failed play-off season, largely because our midfield couldn't quite cope with just Sidwell and Harper in there at the time. Before (can't remember at which point he changed it) he was very much a 4-4-2 man and when he left us the following season he'd already reverted us back to 4-4-2 and made changes to the squad to make that formation work.

The side Coppell took over was a 4-4-2 team, albeit one that Coppell gradually evolved to get to the formula that worked so well for him.

[Hoop Blah]

Martinez signed players from their Promotion squad:
De Vries - 46 - 46
Rangel - 37 - 37
Williams - 46 - 45
Allen - 30 - 13
Dyer - 45 - 37
Dobbie - 23 - 4
Serran - 5 - 3
Gower - 37 - 25
Bodde - 0 - 2
Orlandi - 13 - 22
Bessone - nope, had a year on loan before Rodgers and spent 10-11 at Leeds and Charlton

The likes of Tate and Monk were there before Martinez was manager but did play with him so obviously knew a lot about him and the passing philosphy that he favoured.

I've added in the games played for Rodgers and the games played the season before for De Souza.

So what did Rodgers actually do? He got better use and results out of the players he had, added some key players like Neil Taylor, Scott Sinclair, Borini and actually played the likes of Dobbie and Allen whilst also bringing back another key player in Leon Britton.

The side that went up then had the best part of 6 'new' players which helped get the best out of what Swansea had and got them further than both Martinez and De Souza had managed. As much as he took over a team that played in a way Rodgers wanted his side to, you can't knock the job he did in taking them on to another level.

Just sounds like good management to me (much like Coppells was at Reading).

[Hoop Blah]

Apart from bottlejob & nice guy I thought that last sentence was a better description of Rodgers TBH.

...whilst I'm here defending Rodgers, I'm not sure how you can say he had no plan B when part of his initial problems was that he choped and changed both personell and formation too much.

He might not've switched from too much passing but we certainly mixed things up in terms of getting the ball forwards a bit more quickly at times.

He didn't work out and he tried to change too much too soon, but to beat him up over things like that is stretching it a bit.

[Ian Royal]

Excellent post with one minor exception. It's utter turd.

Pardew is the man who developed 4-5-1 with us to great success. A formation Coppell did not favour. Pardew was about bigging the players up and making them believe they were brilliant. A style Coppell did not favour. The main first team for Coppell's promotion was made up of 17 players of which 11 were signed by Coppell, not Pardew. Care to do a comparison to Rodgers promotion team?

If you're going to slate peoples posts for being inaccurate you could at least get you're facts straight.

Pardew played 4-5-1 for the failed play-off season, largely because our midfield couldn't quite cope with just Sidwell and Harper in there at the time. Before (can't remember at which point he changed it) he was very much a 4-4-2 man and when he left us the following season he'd already reverted us back to 4-4-2 and made changes to the squad to make that formation work.

The side Coppell took over was a 4-4-2 team, albeit one that Coppell gradually evolved to get to the formula that worked so well for him.

So you mean we played 4-5-1 the season before Coppell took over? Thank you, this is what I said.

All Rodgers chopping and changing was trying to make Plan A work, which it didn't. Not having a Plan B. He was then forced to play a way he didn't want to and couldn't make work either. I call that no Plan B.

[Hoop Blah]

Rodgers tried to have the team play differently for different situations. That's having different approaches or 'plans'.

As for the Pardew and 4-5-1 point, you were implying that Coppell took over a team that was built to play 4-5-1 and so had to make wholesale changes to revert back to his prefered 4-4-2 (as opposed to Rodgers who apparently walked into a play-off winning team and only had to do interviews and pointy actions from the touchline).

That isn't true because the squad Pardew left behind was built to play 4-4-2 irrespective of what he had them play for the majority of the previous season.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Surely the whole 4-4-2 / 4-5-1 argument just centres around the fitness of Nicky Forster? He was only really effective as a lone striker, and no-one else in the squad was, so when he was fit we tended to play 4-5-1 - regardless of the manager.

[Hoop Blah]

Surely the whole 4-4-2 / 4-5-1 argument just centres around the fitness of Nicky Forster? He was only really effective as a lone striker, and no-one else in the squad was, so when he was fit we tended to play 4-5-1 - regardless of the manager.

Pardew still played it when Forster wasn't fit and also played him in a 4-4-2 alongside Goater in the side he left behind when he walked out.

Forster (and Hughes) was the man who made it work so well, but Pardew had already looked to move to 4-4-2 and tweaked the squad accordingly, so I don't think Coppell took over a side so dependant upon Forster for it's shape and potential success.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Surely the whole 4-4-2 / 4-5-1 argument just centres around the fitness of Nicky Forster? He was only really effective as a lone striker, and no-one else in the squad was, so when he was fit we tended to play 4-5-1 - regardless of the manager.

Pardew still played it when Forster wasn't fit and also played him in a 4-4-2 alongside Goater in the side he left behind when he walked out.

Forster (and Hughes) was the man who made it work so well, but Pardew had already looked to move to 4-4-2 and tweaked the squad accordingly, so I don't think Coppell took over a side so dependant upon Forster for it's shape and potential success.

You may be right, but I don't remember it. Who was up front alone when Forster was injured?

I do remember lots of time when Forster was in a 4-4-2 alongside Rougier, but as that was Rougier I don't count that as it was effectively a 4-4-1.

[Hoop Blah]

Most famously, in the play off semi, Hughes played upfront with Cureton behind him in the 'Hughes role'.

I seem to remember both Tyson and Henderson (and Rougier for that matter) playing in place of Forster on a few occassions (Forest away for one with Tyson I think). I don't think that worked very well though, but that's probably part of the reason why Pardew made the changes that summer so he left behind a squad built for 4-4-2.

[Ian Royal]

The point is Hoop, that the assertion that if Rodgers inherited a side with the majority of players set up and all the ethos and style work done already, then Coppell got the same from Pardew, is rubbish.

Regardless of whether Pardew did play 4-4-2 or not and had reverted to it just before he left, he had the team playing a different formation and style to the one Coppell was successful with not long before Coppell took over.

Coppell obviously had a good base with which to work from. But Rodgers had only a couple of minor tweeks to do to get Swansea really firing, and not a complete rebuilding job like he needed here. Which is whythings have worked out rather better for him there than here.

[Hoop Blah]

Not really Ian, Coppell may have changed things a bit more (read above where you'll find Rodgers made the best part of half a dozen changes to the first team squad/11 over the last season) but he also took longer to do it and so natural evolution of the team plays a part too. I'd probably argue the number of Coppell acquisitions you're quoting as first team squad members as well but that's another story.

Pardew and Coppells style was very similar. They key difference was that Coppell allowed his side more autonomy on the pitch than Pardew did. The way we played wasn't so different.

[Ian Royal]

I'd probably argue the number of Coppell acquisitions you're quoting as first team squad members as well but that's another story.

Be interested to see you arguing against Ingimarsson, Sonko, Makin, Little, Convey, Hunt, Oster, Gunnarsson, Lita, Long, Doyle and Kitson. Pretty sure they're all Coppell signings.

[Royal With Cheese]

LOLz @ Makin!