England fan jailed for 3 years after killing Wales supporter

[paultheroyal]

I accept it's manslaughter in the eyes of the law but for me the fist is the weapon which killed a man hence murder! If it was your family relative killed, would you be happy with 3 years and out in 1.5, not a chance!

[FiNeRaIn]

No I wouldn't but that feeling is vengeance and if every family got what the sentence they wanted the jails would be flooded.

[RobRoyal]

I accept it's manslaughter in the eyes of the law but for me the fist is the weapon which killed a man hence murder! If it was your family relative killed, would you be happy with 3 years and out in 1.5, not a chance!

You think grief-stricken, possibly vengeful relatives are the best people to decide the right legal outcome then?

[paultheroyal]

I accept it's manslaughter in the eyes of the law but for me the fist is the weapon which killed a man hence murder! If it was your family relative killed, would you be happy with 3 years and out in 1.5, not a chance!

You think grief-stricken, possibly vengeful relatives are the best people to decide the right legal outcome then?

No, but is 1.5 years suitable punishment?

[RobRoyal]

I accept it's manslaughter in the eyes of the law but for me the fist is the weapon which killed a man hence murder! If it was your family relative killed, would you be happy with 3 years and out in 1.5, not a chance!

You think grief-stricken, possibly vengeful relatives are the best people to decide the right legal outcome then?

No, but is 1.5 years suitable punishment?

I'm a bit uncomfortable with a prison term that long for a single punch that was clearly not intended to kill, nor could reasonably have been expected to do so. Not that I'm suggesting that my discomfort has anything to do with the right sentence either.

[RobRoyal]

So we must charge everyone who throws a drunken punch with attempted murder then.

[Tails]

I thought the definition of murder is when a person commits an act which they know may cause GBH or death to another.

So you legally don't need to intend to cause death for a conviction of murder.

[FiNeRaIn]

I got hit once at school over a lunchbox, luckily im not dead...but can we have the guy who did it for attempted murder?

[cmonurz]

Wrong argument, shirley? Little doubt manslaughter is the right charge, but iirc the maximum sentence for such a crime is life in prison. Three years seems incredibly lenient.

[Tails]

I thought the definition of murder is when a person commits an act which they know may cause GBH or death to another.

So you legally don't need to intend to cause death for a conviction of murder.

Murder is to kill while intending to kill or intending to cause gbh. There's no 'may' about it.

Relax m8!

Anyone would have thought you were a criminal barrister.

[RobRoyal]

So we must charge everyone who throws a drunken punch with attempted murder then.

Don't even try to straw man me, you 3rd rate no-mark excuse for a fisherman!
You need bigger b8 m8.

I never said that.
What I said was not even close. And if it is a question that needs to be answered, I will clarify: It is my opinion that anyone who assaults someone, and this person they assault then ends up dead, should be charged with murder. The cause and effect is clearly linked, and you have to be a complete moron to a) assault someone, b) not know that a violent assault may lead to a persons death, and c) not accept your fair punishment for said crime.

Smoke that in your crackpipes, criminal vermin!!!

I wasn't actually trying to straw man you, but hoped to point out the logical problem with what you said. Obviously failed, so: you're happy that the charge will depend on whether or not the victim hits their head on the pavement?

[RobRoyal]

Been enjoying the christmas spirit I see, Ideal.

[M-U-R-T-Y]

Dear lord

[cmonurz]

I actually completely agree with Ideal's sentiment - that cause and effect are linked - without the punch the victim doesn't fall and hit his head and die - the actions of the perpetrator lead to the death of the victim. But these cases are what the manslaughter charge are for - for me 3 years for causing someone's death by a violent act is simply too short.

[Platypuss]

On one hand, I think a man who punches another man in the head and kills him should definately get a far far more sever sentence than a man who punches another man in exactly the same manner and only causes concussion. BUT, I don't think I should have been sent off just because the guy i tripped broke his legs.

Im bamboozled.

Don't be.

Look up "mens rea"


Yes, I know.

[Pseud O'Nym]

Also, what is it with Judges who see the fact that someone is drunk as a mitigating factor, rather than an aggravating one? It was like those 4 Somalian girls who beat up a white girl and didn't get a custodial because the Judge said that they weren't used to drinking??

You mean this case in which the judge refused to accept alcohol as mitigation?

Gary Short, mitigating for Ambaro Maxamed, said the attack was down to alcohol. He said: 'They’re Somalian Muslims and alcohol or drugs isn’t something they’re used to.’
Judge Brown said that ‘those who knock someone to the floor and kick them in the head can expect to go inside’.
But he said he accepted the women may have felt they were the victims of unreasonable force from Mr Moore as he tried to defend his girlfriend, and handed the defendants a suspended sentence.