Weekend Football 11/12th

[FiNeRaIn]

Completely agree with HB’s posts on page 10, fwiw.

Well we knew you would tbh, I find the idea that Evra was looking to escalate this absolutely repulsive. His hand is there to be shook...he doesn't withdraw it and suarez walks on past. As for him being a " oxf*rd of the highest order" why on earth was this stated as some sort of fact? I and many others quite like him, what on earth has he done to be given this tag? Again, massively offensive comments from the bias liverpool fans on here.

I'm not a Liverpool supporter.

Evra is one of the more volatile players in the league (why Fergie likes him I guess) and has a history of being involved in on the field and off the field incidents (I think VM has listed a few recently). He's a very good player but he's no stranger to causing friction.

Have you ever come back to me on the Celtic mentality by the way?

The Celtic mentality is exactly what liverpool have been displaying recently. Paranoia, aggression, " everyone against us", conspiracy theories, being embarrassed by nothing and being offended by absolute anything and acting with absolutely no class or dignity. You aren't born with it, but once you become part of the club then your mentality changes and those attributes kick in, Mr Dalglish obviously developed this mentality during his Celtic years. Celtic believed there was a referring conspiracy up there and nearly forced the referees to go on strike due to their nonsense. Clubs like Liverpool and Celtic are massively stupid as they then start listening to their brainless fans on forums and start reacting like they do and when you have the top individuals within the clubs acting like this it escalates it further. Its cringe worthy. Liverpool's player was in the wrong..he made a racist comment and was punished for it. The defence quite simply was beyond embarrassment along with the provocative statements and antics that followed. Evra was man enough to want to shake hands...he didn't withdraw and he was the victim here, he might of insulted suarez but insulting isn't illegal...racism is a very serious issue and by resorting to a racist comments suarez made himself the offender.

I'd like to know what these incidents Evra has been part of actually are?

[TBM]

The fight at Stamford Bridge and the refusal to train at the World Cup after his bust up with the fitness coach

[Hoop Blah]

With respect, I think you still miss the point.... (see what I did there...)

The handshake may have minimal impact on the professional footballer but it is done to promote the notion of respect at all levels of the game.

Kids see their heroes do it, and then they themselves do it week after week, year after year, and it is bound to have a positive impact on them somewhere along the line. It's just one small element of making grass roots football better.

There are many more (and bigger) things they could do but choose not to - that's a different issue.

Is that two jokes in one day?

Like you emphasise, it's all about the promoting of respect, ie (in my mind at least) part of the packaging of the game for the TV audience and the TV companies. If it wasn't for having it as a set piece part of the build up for TV the FA wouldn't have bothered having it as part of the Respect campaign.

I still don't get where you think the positive influence will come into it. Does being made to shake someones hand give you any more respect for them? It never has done for me. I've gained a lot more respect for players I've played against who've kicked and tourmented me through a game (and visa-versa) but have got on with it like men and shaken hands after because we've done it with the same intent in mind, to win and to enjoy a good competitive and physical challenge.

Same with refs. The one's I've got to know and respect are the ones who control the game well, communicate and are willing to do things in the right way. Shaking their hands before the game never changed my view on them as refs or people. The way they conducted themselves made all the difference.

[FiNeRaIn]

The fight at Stamford Bridge and the refusal to train at the World Cup after his bust up with the fitness coach

Along with most of the team? Don't remember the stamford bridge fight, he's obviously not squeeky clean, how many players are?

[Hoop Blah]

The fight at Stamford Bridge and the refusal to train at the World Cup after his bust up with the fitness coach

Along with most of the team? Don't remember the stamford bridge fight, he's obviously not squeeky clean, how many players are?

He was the captain and ring leader of the French revolt, hence his lengthy suspension by their FA. He started the fight at Chelsea and claimed it was a race thing with their groundsman starting it. He was charged and suspended for it by our FA if I remember rightly.

You only have to watch him in any game and you can see he's quite the c*** though. He dives and he protests and he bitches and whines more than most and, although I think he's an excellent player, he's horrible to watch because of the way he plays.

[TBM]

Plus he's good friends with Tevez

[Simon's Church]

The fight at Stamford Bridge and the refusal to train at the World Cup after his bust up with the fitness coach

Along with most of the team? Don't remember the stamford bridge fight, he's obviously not squeeky clean, how many players are?

He started the fight at Chelsea and claimed it was a race thing with their groundsman starting it. He was charged and suspended for it by our FA if I remember rightly.
.

It was actually Mike Phelan that said it was a race thing, Evra said he didn't hear anything racist being said.

[Hoop Blah]

The way I remember it is that Evra attacked the guy for making a racist comment. Can't recall who said that was the motive or not, but he got done for it.

Edit: just googled it and the FAs statement apparently says, "Mr Evra has never claimed to have heard such a [racist] remark on that day".

Playing the race card or not, Evra assaulted a groundsman and got done for that and, I think, giving dodgy evidence to the FA at the enquiry (ironically similar to Suarez this time around).

[Bandini]

Perhaps I should have clarified a bit further, but at the time I couldn’t be bothered.

I agree with HB’s general sentiment that there is more to this case than has been delivered by the FA as the official ‘verdict’. I agree with HB that were Suarez guilty of calling Evra a negro ten times, and in the context claimed, this would not have rumbled on as long as it has. It is evident that Liverpool and Suarez feel aggrieved at the extent of his punishment given the verdict was essentially delivered on Evra’s word.

It's apparent from the events of the weekend, if it wasn't already obvious, that Suarez felt aggrieved because he's a spoilt little brat. That's not a sensible basis for disputing the judgment, particularly as it was in line with previous punishments.

[cmonurz]

Perhaps I should have clarified a bit further, but at the time I couldn’t be bothered.

I agree with HB’s general sentiment that there is more to this case than has been delivered by the FA as the official ‘verdict’. I agree with HB that were Suarez guilty of calling Evra a negro ten times, and in the context claimed, this would not have rumbled on as long as it has. It is evident that Liverpool and Suarez feel aggrieved at the extent of his punishment given the verdict was essentially delivered on Evra’s word.

It's apparent from the events of the weekend, if it wasn't already obvious, that Suarez felt aggrieved because he's a spoilt little brat. That's not a sensible basis for disputing the judgment, particularly as it was in line with previous punishments.

You are, of course, welcome to your opinion.

[Bandini]

Any other way of characterising his actions?

Before, your defence of him was wrong, but plausible. It's really rather embarrassing now.

[Hoop Blah]

Although I probably agree that Suarez has acted like a spoilt brat (doesn't really set him apart from the majority of his profession mind) the support he's had from his club, manager and teammates over the initial incident makes me think there's more to it.

If he was having to make more of an isolated stance I'd agree more wholeheartedly with you Baines.

[cmonurz]

Any other way of characterising his actions?

Before, your defence of him was wrong, but plausible. It's really rather embarrassing now.

What has changed? I am not defending his actions at the weekend?

Although I probably agree that Suarez has acted like a spoilt brat (doesn't really set him apart from the majority of his profession mind) the support he's had from his club, manager and teammates over the initial incident makes me think there's more to it.

If he was having to make more of an isolated stance I'd agree more wholeheartedly with you Baines.

And again, this. I simply can't believe he would be receiving such unequivocal support concerning the original incident if there was not more to it than that 'revealed' by the FA verdict.

[Hoop Blah]

Suarez is a fcucking imbecile.

Redknapp made a right bloody mug of himself there as well. It's a foul because after Rio gets the ball Suarez touches it as well?!

This. Though I have to question Sky's choice of pundit team, Redknapp from the 'pool side, then Fletcher and Neville for Utd. Why not 1 of each and then a neutral ffs?

Think you'll find his take on it was that Suarez gets a touch before or at the same time. I don't think that's quite right as it happens but I do think there's a strong case for it being a foul (not that I think it was one you could expect a ref to give).

When Ferdinand makes the challenge he just about has to go through Suarez to get his touch on the ball. Suarez touches the ball after Ferdinand but largely as a result of the contact Ferdinand makes on his calf when nicking the ball away. If you go through the player to win the ball it doesn't matter if you touch it first, it's still a foul.

It's such a fine line between foul and tackle that I don't think that could ever be given with any certainty by the ref so I think he got it spot on.

Neville impressed again as pundit though. Got the balance right between biased fan and knowledgable expert. I'd rather see a bit of passion and partisanship than bland and comfy neutrality.

Has Evra so far got away with any criticism for apparently kicking off the tunnel fracas? I've not read or heard anything about it but Sky certainly implied it kicked off when Evra was trying to get at Suarez.

[Vision]

The Celtic mentality is exactly what liverpool have been displaying recently. Paranoia, aggression, " everyone against us", conspiracy theories, being embarrassed by nothing and being offended by absolute anything and acting with absolutely no class or dignity. You aren't born with it, but once you become part of the club then your mentality changes and those attributes kick in, Mr Dalglish obviously developed this mentality during his Celtic years. Celtic believed there was a referring conspiracy up there and nearly forced the referees to go on strike due to their nonsense. Clubs like Liverpool and Celtic are massively stupid as they then start listening to their brainless fans on forums and start reacting like they do and when you have the top individuals within the clubs acting like this it escalates it further. Its cringe worthy. Liverpool's player was in the wrong..he made a racist comment and was punished for it. The defence quite simply was beyond embarrassment along with the provocative statements and antics that followed. Evra was man enough to want to shake hands...he didn't withdraw and he was the victim here, he might of insulted suarez but insulting isn't illegal...racism is a very serious issue and by resorting to a racist comments suarez made himself the offender.

Honestly substitute Liverpool and Celtic for any club and you'll find the same attitute prevalent amongst a section of its support. You'll also find a fair chunk amongst other clubs making the same generalisations as you've just made. It's a mentality inherent in football, not individual clubs.

Reading are basically a 2bit club from the arse-end of nowhere football wise but you can see for yourself how enraged people get when we perceive an injustice against us.

See the fall out after Hunt/Cech (still going strong in some quarters).

No-one's immune to it.

[Bandini]

Any other way of characterising his actions?

Before, your defence of him was wrong, but plausible. It's really rather embarrassing now.

What has changed? I am not defending his actions at the weekend?

Although I probably agree that Suarez has acted like a spoilt brat (doesn't really set him apart from the majority of his profession mind) the support he's had from his club, manager and teammates over the initial incident makes me think there's more to it.

If he was having to make more of an isolated stance I'd agree more wholeheartedly with you Baines.

And again, this. I simply can't believe he would be receiving such unequivocal support concerning the original incident if there was not more to it than that 'revealed' by the FA verdict.

Don't his actions over the weekend colour (ho ho) your view of his previous actions/denials/defence?

[cmonurz]

No, as much as it made Suarez look like a bit of a prick, if you start from the viewpoint I’ve expressed all along, effectively that Evra has fit Suarez up as to the severity of these offences, Liverpool and Suarez feel aggrieved at the punishment, and that explains (not justifies, just explains) the continued protestations coming out of the football club (such as Dalglish’s ‘he should never have been banned anyway’).

Ferguson has played this brilliantly – his inflammatory remarks about racism just a day or two before this game have flown under the radar. He knew what he was doing.

[No Fixed Abode]

If there is any good to come out of all this debacle - it's shown what a disgrace the majority of Liverpool fans are. It's never their fault, always the victims.

Got to agree with Finerain re Celtic mentality.

[TheMaraudingDog]

If there is any good to come out of all this debacle - it's shown what a disgrace the majority of Liverpool fans are. It's never their fault, always the victims.

Got to agree with Finerain re Celtic mentality.

Do you just copy everything Hicksy says on FB onto here?

[FiNeRaIn]

The Celtic mentality is exactly what liverpool have been displaying recently. Paranoia, aggression, " everyone against us", conspiracy theories, being embarrassed by nothing and being offended by absolute anything and acting with absolutely no class or dignity. You aren't born with it, but once you become part of the club then your mentality changes and those attributes kick in, Mr Dalglish obviously developed this mentality during his Celtic years. Celtic believed there was a referring conspiracy up there and nearly forced the referees to go on strike due to their nonsense. Clubs like Liverpool and Celtic are massively stupid as they then start listening to their brainless fans on forums and start reacting like they do and when you have the top individuals within the clubs acting like this it escalates it further. Its cringe worthy. Liverpool's player was in the wrong..he made a racist comment and was punished for it. The defence quite simply was beyond embarrassment along with the provocative statements and antics that followed. Evra was man enough to want to shake hands...he didn't withdraw and he was the victim here, he might of insulted suarez but insulting isn't illegal...racism is a very serious issue and by resorting to a racist comments suarez made himself the offender.

Honestly substitute Liverpool and Celtic for any club and you'll find the same attitute prevalent amongst a section of its support. You'll also find a fair chunk amongst other clubs making the same generalisations as you've just made. It's a mentality inherent in football, not individual clubs.

Reading are basically a 2bit club from the arse-end of nowhere football wise but you can see for yourself how enraged people get when we perceive an injustice against us.

See the fall out after Hunt/Cech (still going strong in some quarters).

No-one's immune to it.

No, but the two I've mentioned take it way beyond those levels as i've pointed out in those cases. who nearly gets a league called off by placing the referees under conspiracy theories and religious pressure? No one in england has done this. This whole liverpool debate also, its way beyond the normal silly fan mentality.