Lionel Messi

[cmonurz]

Well he's got three more attempts, probably.

[TBM]

Well he's got three more attempts, probably.

Indeed and no doubt he will do it but until he shines for Argentina [in a major comp], i still think Maradona was better

[RobRoyal]

Another comparison: After moving to Europe, Maradona never scored more than 23 goals in a season. Messi has beaten that in each of the last 4 seasons. So far this season he's scored 54 in 45 games. He got 24 assists last season and 21 so far this season.

Can't find anything about Maradona's record in the European Cup.

[RobRoyal]

And do you actually know what Messi's personal form has been like for Argentina? How many of their games do you watch?

I watched all the Copa America and the 2010 WC and he was nowhere to be seen.......i just found it strange for the best player in the world not to shine. Even Ronaldo performs better on the International stage.

That's ridiculous. He was absolutely instrumental in Argentina's good start to the tournament in 2010. It all went wrong when Germany turned up and exposed their shocking defence. Short of scoring 4 in that game I'm not sure what he's supposed to have done.

[TBM]

And do you actually know what Messi's personal form has been like for Argentina? How many of their games do you watch?

I watched all the Copa America and the 2010 WC and he was nowhere to be seen.......i just found it strange for the best player in the world not to shine. Even Ronaldo performs better on the International stage.

That's ridiculous. He was absolutely instrumental in Argentina's good start to the tournament in 2010.

5 goals and 5 assists for Maradona in 86 (plus the trophy)

[Silver Fox]

And do you actually know what Messi's personal form has been like for Argentina? How many of their games do you watch?

I watched all the Copa America and the 2010 WC and he was nowhere to be seen.

He's little but surely you can spot him

[TBM]

Another comparison: After moving to Europe, Maradona never scored more than 23 goals in a season. Messi has beaten that in each of the last 4 seasons. So far this season he's scored 54 in 45 games. He got 24 assists last season and 21 so far this season.

Can't find anything about Maradona's record in the European Cup.

So it is about goals then?...........but you said it isn't?!

[Jackson Corner]

I've been watching football for over 30 years and he is the best I have ever seen. Maradona was brilliant but he was also a drug taking wife beating diving dirty little cheat. Messi is not only a better player but the way he plays with a smile puts him right up there it's frightning what he will achieve in the game. He may never get to get to win a world cup as Argentina are crap at the moment but they may change by 2014.

[cmonurz]

154 goals in his last 153 games.

[RobRoyal]

That's ridiculous. He was absolutely instrumental in Argentina's good start to the tournament in 2010.

5 goals and 5 assists for Maradona in 86 (plus the trophy)

Don't get me wrong, it was a great achievement, and to score those two goals in the knock-out stages, well, probably nobody has ever made a world cup their own in that way.

But... they were drawn against poor sides, had a lot of luck, and he wasn't great in the final which was largely won by Valdano and Burrachega (though Maradona laid on the winning goal). Plus the qualities of that Argentinian side are underestimated in the clamour to celebrate one of the world's great players.

[Royal Rother]

20 in his last 8 games.

Even bigger

[RobRoyal]

Another comparison: After moving to Europe, Maradona never scored more than 23 goals in a season. Messi has beaten that in each of the last 4 seasons. So far this season he's scored 54 in 45 games. He got 24 assists last season and 21 so far this season.

Can't find anything about Maradona's record in the European Cup.

So it is about goals then?...........but you said it isn't?!

Messi is one of the greatest goalscorers of all time, and simultaneously one of the greatest creators of all time, along with playing a key role in Barca's pressing game. His defensive work is extraordinary. I don't think drawing attention to any of these aspects should be read as denigrating the importance of the others.

[sandman]

Another comparison: After moving to Europe, Maradona never scored more than 23 goals in a season. Messi has beaten that in each of the last 4 seasons. So far this season he's scored 54 in 45 games. He got 24 assists last season and 21 so far this season.

Can't find anything about Maradona's record in the European Cup.

Before he arrived at Napoli they had gone on a major dip and were in a couple of relegation battles. When he was there they won 2 titles,Supercopa and the UEFA cup not bad for a smaller team who had never won the league before.

[who are ya?]

Messi scored a hat-trick for the Argies last month, what more do you lot want eh?.....

Anyway, this seems like a decent place to leave this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw_UnJ06s90

[cmonurz]

20 in his last 8 games.

Even bigger

Purely for my own amusement, it's taken Torres 83 games to score that many goals.

[Maguire]

Best player i've ever seen, no question.

[Hoop Blah]

RobRoyal, it's not just about the stats, how much they've won and a goals to game ratio. It's about how good they are and what they did with that talent.

At the moment I think Maradona just about shades it. He was just a magnificant player to watch and despite RR's claim that it's a myth, he undoubtedly turned an average Argentina team into the World Cup winners in '86. The difference he made to that team (who did have quite a formidable and aggressive defence) was immense. You yourself have said that you aren't old enough to remember 86 but then go on to describe how he didn't have much of an impact.

I expect Messi to go on and surpass Maradona as the best player ever (I never like that tag to be honest) but at the moment what Maradona achieved, and the talent he had to do that whilst mistreating his body the way he did, puts him above him for me.

[RobRoyal]

RobRoyal, it's not just about the stats, how much they've won and a goals to game ratio. It's about how good they are and what they did with that talent.

At the moment I think Maradona just about shades it. He was just a magnificant player to watch and despite RR's claim that it's a myth, he undoubtedly turned an average Argentina team into the World Cup winners in '86. The difference he made to that team (who did have quite a formidable and aggressive defence) was immense. You yourself have said that you aren't old enough to remember 86 but then go on to describe how he didn't have much of an impact.

I expect Messi to go on and surpass Maradona as the best player ever (I never like that tag to be honest) but at the moment what Maradona achieved, and the talent he had to do that whilst mistreating his body the way he did, puts him above him for me.

Of course it's not all about stats - I don't expect them to be a knock-down argument, but the weight of evidence is compelling. In terms of "what they've won" - both invidividually and on a team level, Messi already leaves Maradona in his wake.

I didn't watch the 1986 world cup as I was only 4, but it doesn't take someone who watched the tournament to point out that Argentina only played two good sides - one of whom (England), they were lucky to beat (let's bear the Hand of God before using the statistic that Maradona scored 5 goals that tournament...) and one of whom they beat with modest involvement by Maradona, as is widely agreed (ok, he was marked out of the game by another of the finest players of his generation, but there you go). I certainly don't say that he didn't have much of an impact. If you read closely, you'll see I said "probably nobody has ever made a world cup their own in that way." It's just not quite the unmatchable achievement it's sometimes claimed to be.

[KDRF]

Its unfair to say Messi isn't as good as Maradona because he hasnt carried a team, he had the talent to walk into the best team in the world, its not his fault hes surrounded by good quality players.

[3 veesinarow]

Maradona isn't fit to lick Messi's boots - HTH.

The whole "comeback when you've won World Cups" argument (copyright Pele) ia a non-starter. George Best is constantly in the mix in debates like this and he never came remotely close to a World Cup, but there are many, many great footballers like him who never got lucky enough to do so and that doesn't make them any less of a footballer.