Diving

[TBM]

Following Carrolls laughable dive against Newcastle yesterday - then Pearch throwing himself to the ground when Reina moved his head forward, then you had Joey Barton flinging himself to the ground in the first game of the season against Arsenal etc etc.

Should diving/feigning injury be punished by a ban? or should we just accept it is now part of the modern game?

[Barry the bird boggler]

Obvious dives looking for a penalty etc. should be immediately punished with a yellow card, the over reaction of players who throw themselves to the ground if another player stands up to them or moves their arm/leg/head towards them should be punished with a red card. Ergo, yesterday, Carroll should have been booked (believe he was) and Perch should have been sent off as well as Reina.

[3 veesinarow]

Never accept it.

After the Muamba incident, I would have hoped players in general, and Perch on this particular occasion, might just have proved themselves to be be more conscientious in their reactions to situations such as these and perhaps realise that feigning injury and grossly over-reacting to the slightest contact is diabolical.

I heard it called "professionalism" on the part of Perch yesterday, in the same vein that a player should go down under a feather touch in the area to get a penalty. He felt contact with Reina's head and was "professional" enough to make sure he went down. Don't get me wrong, Reina was stupid and had to go, but I felt sick watching Perch go down like that. How much more of a man would he be if he just stood his ground, made his protest at the action and watched him walk anyway?

Professionalism is nothing more than a sick euphemism for "cheating".

[cmonurz]

Obvious dives looking for a penalty etc. should be immediately punished with a yellow card, the over reaction of players who throw themselves to the ground if another player stands up to them or moves their arm/leg/head towards them should be punished with a red card. Ergo, yesterday, Carroll should have been booked (believe he was) and Perch should have been sent off as well as Reina.

I’d have it the other way around. It’s too fine a judgement (in most cases) for the referee to make as to whether Perch was butted by Reina, or feigned injury. Reina’s movement was certainly significant, and if Perch hadn’t seen it coming and gone down, he might have taken one in the face. I also don’t think we should be issuing red cards for people ‘exaggerating’ contact or injury, again that’s too fine a judgement.

I’d have a yellow for Perch for the exaggeration of what happened (which would have been a second as he was booked for the late challenge on Reina, I thought), and I’d have a straight red for dives like Carroll’s. What this would stop is players diving into a foul, like Dzeko did at the weekend, like Lampard did earlier in the season, Suarez too. If you want a free-kick, take the contact.

[Wycombe Royal]

The problem is that the play-acting isn't always obvious when seen live, for example Perch. Perch was booked I believe for leaving his foot in on Reina which led to Reina's reaction.

Perch should now also be charged for the total over-reaction after the "head-butt".

[Simon's Church]

It's disgusting but until we ban foreigners from our game it'll continue to get worse. Same with showing an imaginary card.

[cmonurz]

Same with showing an imaginary card.

Should be an automatic yellow card.

[Simon's Church]

Is it any worse than all the players running up to the ref and shouting 'book him' though?

[TBM]

Scotland have it right

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/16236471

Thomson had awarded the penalty, converted by Scott Vernon, after ruling the Dons player was fouled by Ivan Sproule.

But video footage of the penalty incident was reviewed on Monday by compliance officer Vincent Lunny, who then issued a complaint to Aberdeen, offering a two-match suspension for breach of disciplinary rule 202, which relates to simulation.

[Hoop Blah]

A review system that can be fairly and consistently applied throughout the league would be excellent if they were willing to nail players for things like Perch's and Barton's reactions. There's no real place in the game for it and it drives me nuts.

It's also a pity we've got to the position where a little pushing action with the head like Reina's was is immediately seen by everyone as a rightful red card. He didn't head butt him. He didn't even try to hurt Perch, there was no violent intent and so I don't really see what the issue was. That kind of thing should be a yellow and nothing more.

[TBM]

He didn't head butt him. He didn't even try to hurt Perch, there was no violent intent and so I don't really see what the issue was. That kind of thing should be a yellow and nothing more.

I think its the intent of that he moved his head towards him......remember the kids watching, if he had got a yellow - they would try it in their next game thinking "its ok, its only a yellow card"

[cmonurz]

A review system that can be fairly and consistently applied throughout the league would be excellent if they were willing to nail players for things like Perch's and Barton's reactions. There's no real place in the game for it and it drives me nuts.

It's also a pity we've got to the position where a little pushing action with the head like Reina's was is immediately seen by everyone as a rightful red card. He didn't head butt him. He didn't even try to hurt Perch, there was no violent intent and so I don't really see what the issue was. That kind of thing should be a yellow and nothing more.

Until there’s some acceptance by the FA that referees can get things wrong, there’s little chance of the disciplinary system being reviewed. Being unable to issue punishments for incidents that the referee has ‘seen’ is a ridiculous situation to be in.

On Reina, there was significant intent to push his head against, not just towards Perch – although I agree with your general sentiment, Barton’s earlier in the season against Norwich for example, was just a head ‘nudge’ as oppose to any real movement.

[Hoop Blah]

Agreed. My point is that we're now in the position where everyone see's what he did as so wrong.

That's only a new thing over the last 5 or so years and is just a bit of PC influence (and makes applying consistently a bit easier I guess). The laws say it should be violent conduct to earn a red card, but in reality there isn't anything violent about what he did. It's seen as violent conduct because of the way they're talking about and applying the laws (eg on telly they refer to 'raise your hands and you'll get sent off'). If moving your head to someone like that is violent then the worlds gone mad.

[TBM]

Agreed. My point is that we're now in the position where everyone see's what he did as so wrong.

That's only a new thing over the last 5 or so years and is just a bit of PC influence (and makes applying consistently a bit easier I guess). The laws say it should be violent conduct to earn a red card, but in reality there isn't anything violent about what he did. It's seen as violent conduct because of the way they're talking about and applying the laws (eg on telly they refer to 'raise your hands and you'll get sent off'). If moving your head to someone like that is violent then the worlds gone mad.

I know what you're saying but the fact, in real time, it looked like Reina went for the headbutt - if he was to just lock heads with Pearch then it would have been a yellow for both but the fact Pearch didn't put his head forward meant it was one-way.....

I think a red is correct, it will make players think before squaring up to each other. Fouls happen a dozen+ times a game, its part of the game so why do players feel the need to push/lock heads to show they are pissed off with the challenge.

[PieEater]

Reina and goalkeepers in general are prone to going mental if they get the slightest contact, so IMHO his red card was deserved, a yellow for the reaction and a yellow for the head butt.

As for feigning injury, as long as there is some advantage to be gained by doing it then players will. To stop it the downside needs to be worse than the upside.

For example, Perch should have his nose examined after the game and if it's found to have minimal or no contact then he gets a 3 match ban.

[cmonurz]

Reina and goalkeepers in general are prone to going mental if they get the slightest contact, so IMHO his red card was deserved, a yellow for the reaction and a yellow for the head butt.

As for feigning injury, as long as there is some advantage to be gained by doing it then players will. To stop it the downside needs to be worse than the upside.

For example, Perch should have his nose examined after the game and if it's found to have minimal or no contact then he gets a 3 match ban.

Reina in particular though isn’t prone to going mental – really out of character, shows the pressure Liverpool are under I guess.

Don’t agree you can punish the same incident twice – you can’t have a yellow for getting a bit stressy and then a yellow for the non-butt. The red for violent conduct was deserved imho because the intention was there; if it wasn’t then he’s a very good judge of reaction as if Perch hadn’t dived, he’d have made contact.

Agree that the punishment for simulation should be severe, whether during the game or subsequently on review, but that should only be where no contact has been made, we shouldn’t start judging how bad an injury a player should be suffering from a foul challenge.

[Hoop Blah]

I know what you're saying but the fact, in real time, it looked like Reina went for the headbutt - if he was to just lock heads with Pearch then it would have been a yellow for both but the fact Pearch didn't put his head forward meant it was one-way.....

I think a red is correct, it will make players think before squaring up to each other. Fouls happen a dozen+ times a game, its part of the game so why do players feel the need to push/lock heads to show they are pissed off with the challenge.

Usually through frustration or build up of a number of fouls/incidents rather than the actual single foul, at least in my experience anyway.

I don't see why the reaction or actions of the other player should dictate the punishment. He's been sent of for violent conduct. If he'd have swung a punch it'd be red. If they'd both swung a punch it would still be red so not sure where the old pushing your head into the other guy becomes violent (it's an aggressive motion yes, but not violent). To my mind there is quite a difference between that and a proper [attempted] head butt.

There does need to be a line though to make it easier for both refs to implement consistently and for players to know where they stand. I guess I just think the line is too far on the non-violent side for my liking.

I do agree that under the 'current climate' it was a red though.

[Big Foot]

It's disgusting but until we ban foreigners from our game it'll continue to get worse. Same with showing an imaginary card.

Yup, foreigners like Perch and Carroll.

[Simon's Church]

It's disgusting but until we ban foreigners from our game it'll continue to get worse. Same with showing an imaginary card.

Yup, foreigners like Perch and Carroll.

[soggy biscuit]

73.2% of all diving went out of the english game when Ronaldo & Joe Cole left.

True fact