England squad...

[Extended-Phenotype]

Well, that's the dealio. I'd prefer to see a bunch of nobodies try and fail than a bunch of tired old failures let us down again for the umpteenth time.

Like I said as an example, Lampard has been shite for the last 7-8 years of international football (as have a number of others) why is he suddenly going to shine now? At least the chap stepping into his shoes has the opportunity to surprise us.

[Wax Jacket]

^ Gerrard's captain though so that doens't totally hold true. aside form my anti-SG bias, he very rarely plays well for England

[Extended-Phenotype]

^ Gerrard's captain though so that doens't totally hold true. aside form my anti-SG bias, he very rarely plays well for England

Oh aye, I wouldn't take Gerrard either. For England he's been marginally better than Lampard overall, but lacks the tournament in his locker that Lampard has (2004).

Wasting our time figuring out how to play both these players at the same time is probably what has cost England (and either individual) success more than any other factor.

Yawning cliche, but you can't field a team of the overall best players. You have to pick a system and pick the players best for the roles, otherwise team nor player are going to shine.

Lampard injury might be a blessing, though personally I think the problem exists with Gerrard/Rooney also.

[cmonurz]

Well it’s a balance between the two approaches, isn’t it. From the available pool of players who are a) fit, b)actually willing to play for England and c) talented, Gerrard remains a solid choice. Gerrard has rarely performed as well for England as for Liverpool because he’s rarely been played where he is most effective. And to that extent I agree with your point that you need to select the players to fit a system or formation.

If you want someone to play behind a lone striker, Gerrard’s your man (or Rooney). There’s no point selecting Gerrard though and then playing him on the left. I’d sooner have Downing there. Gerrard’s best form for Liverpool was playing as an attacking midfielder behind Torres. For England, Lampard has generally been given that freedom, relegating Gerrard to a role he doesn’t play so well.

[No Fixed Abode]

LOL @ NOT taking Terry,

[Hoop Blah]

On a different tangent everyone's having a pop at Henderson but I remember similar things said about Owen Hargreaves before a major tournament. I forget whether it was WC 06 or Euro's 08 but then he turned out to be a superstar at that tournament. Not saying the likes of Henderson, Kelly or Jagielka will do the same but when doors close others open and you just never know. Sometimes a certain system, setup or position suits a player that maybe they don't do at club level, it's a different game at International level to the Premiership and might just suit one of these lads better than their club side.

Totally agree with the sentiment, although I think Hargreaves is the wrong example. He wasn't lauded or recognised because he wasn't playing in the Premier League but he came in and did a great job. One that those who knew him weren't surprised about.

Henderson and Kelly, could well end up playing (unlikely of course) and playing well. If they do I'd liken it more to Danny Mills or Trevor Sinclair having good tournaments at the '02 World Cup (is that the right one?) and proving a lot of people wrong, especially in the case of Mills. Tournaments often see an average player hit a bit of form and do well, it is after all just 3 or 4 good games you need to look great.

The only shame is it's rarely been an average England player who's turned it on.

Totally agree with the point about us being ok defensively too. We're not too shabby there, especially with Hart in goal, but we do obviously lack that guile and creativity that you probably need to win the close games at this level. There's not a lot Hodgson can do about that though.

[Alan Partridge]

06

we weren't at 08

Nice one, my memory of tournaments is literally zero.

[Wax Jacket]

tend to remember the drinking mor ethna the tournament

[southbank1871]

Yep. I was briefly interviewed by Meridian news in the WaLOLkabout after England beat Croatia in Euro 2004. I was completely shitfaced and think I said something like “Rooney is a ledge”

[Extended-Phenotype]

Well it’s a balance between the two approaches, isn’t it. From the available pool of players who are a) fit, b)actually willing to play for England and c) talented, Gerrard remains a solid choice. Gerrard has rarely performed as well for England as for Liverpool because he’s rarely been played where he is most effective. And to that extent I agree with your point that you need to select the players to fit a system or formation.

If you want someone to play behind a lone striker, Gerrard’s your man (or Rooney). There’s no point selecting Gerrard though and then playing him on the left. I’d sooner have Downing there. Gerrard’s best form for Liverpool was playing as an attacking midfielder behind Torres. For England, Lampard has generally been given that freedom, relegating Gerrard to a role he doesn’t play so well.

Pretty much in agreement with that, though would clarify it’s one of Lampard, Gerrard or Rooney behind the striker.

Elsewhere they are not as good as other options, and they will impact on the player who DOES occupy that role.

But managers can’t bear to leave one of these stars on the bench, let alone two. Semi understandable; if they did, they would be slated for it. Even more so if we lost.

However, there are a handful of examples of when just one of them played, not only did the individual play better but so did the team.

[No Fixed Abode]

I'd sooner have anyone in the team ahead of downing. Even playing Baines left back and Cole left mid. Or t'other way around. Even Lennon.

[Dave the rave]

Terry is the right man for the job providing he just plays football and leaves out any extra curicular nonsense.
He'll give his all and is a better CD than anything else we have atm.
Rio is a crock and that should have been THE reason to omit him.

With Gerrard in the middle and Young and Wellbeck in front I think the other positions fill themselves.
Could be a good team.

I can see us doing well until Rooney is squeezed, unnecessarily, back in for the 3rd group game.

[Alan Partridge]

What does everyone think the first 2 starting XI's will be without Rooney? Are we going with Ashley Young up front? Does that mean Theo and AOC on the wings?

Wouldn't be surprised to see Carroll and Welbeck start up front myself.

[Wax Jacket]

pretty sure Young is the only guaranteed starter out of him, AOC, Walcott, Carroll and Welbeck. REckon we'll do something like:

Back 5 takes care of itself

Parker Milner
Walcott Gerrard Young
Welbeck

[Alan Partridge]

pretty sure Young is the only guaranteed starter out of him, AOC, Walcott, Carroll and Welbeck. REckon we'll do something like:

Back 5 takes care of itself

Parker Milner
Walcott Gerrard Young
Welbeck

I keep forgetting Milner (easily done) I'd agree with that side actually especially for the France game.

[TBM]

Downing will start the first game

[Extended-Phenotype]

I think the midfield up will be:

Walcott---Parker---Gerrard---Young

------------Caroll----Wellbeck-----------


I would prefer it to be:

--------Parker—Milner---------

Walcott—Gerrard----Young

-------------Caroll---------------

[Hoop Blah]

I'm not so sure Downing will start, but I'm pretty sure Milner will, with Gerrard in alongside Parker.

I watched the second half of the Belgium match again yesterday (I had some time to kill and couldn't sleep) and looking at it again Gerrard actually defended pretty well, much better than I originally gave him credit for.

I think the midfield will possibly start: Walcott, Parker, Gerrard, Milner (although Downing for Walcot, with Downing on the left and Milner on the right might not be so bad)

Young should be asked to play a bit closer to the midfield against France because they pack the midfield so much and without a 5th person helping out we'll struggle to close them down. Alternatively perhaps Hodgson will feel that 8 defending will be enough and then Welbeck and Youngs pace on the break will be enough to expose Frances fragile defence.

[BR2]

I'm not so sure Downing will start, but I'm pretty sure Milner will, with Gerrard in alongside Parker.

I watched the second half of the Belgium match again yesterday (I had some time to kill and couldn't sleep) and looking at it again Gerrard actually defended pretty well, much better than I originally gave him credit for.

I think the midfield will possibly start: Walcott, Parker, Gerrard, Milner (although Downing for Walcot, with Downing on the left and Milner on the right might not be so bad)

Young should be asked to play a bit closer to the midfield against France because they pack the midfield so much and without a 5th person helping out we'll struggle to close them down. Alternatively perhaps Hodgson will feel that 8 defending will be enough and then Welbeck and Youngs pace on the break will be enough to expose Frances fragile defence.

Not sure what it says too much but interesting stat from the Belgium game that Young made just 7 passes from an advanced midfield position whereas Hazard made 71.
A lad from the office went and said that he didn't realise that Milner was playing until the 70 th minute.

I don't think it matters too much who plays out of the 23-we are bound to play like Chelsea and hope to nick something.
It's sad that it has come to this but you can understand Hodgson playing that way with the moderate players at his disposal as he will be judged on results only and not on performances.
I am looking forward to watching Spain and Germany and possibly France and Germany for entertainment but of course will watch England because as a fan it is compulsory-not much fun but something you just have to do.

[Hoop Blah]

I thought Young had a bit of a stinker, in terms of getting into the game, as did Rooney when he came on and played in the same position.

Young might've only made 7 passes, but at least one of them put Welbeck through to score whereas Hazard moved the ball around nicely but to little real effect.