St. George's Park

[genome]

No, 5th now.

The point people seem to focus on isn't how we're consistently in and around the latter stages of tournaments and collecting good results along the way, but more the fact that we've not won anything for a long long time and don't, apparently, play the most attractive brand of football or dominate teams as much as other countries apparently do.

We're not half as bad as many will make out, but, by the same token we aren't as good, or have the depth of talent available to us as the likes of Brazil, Spain or Germany.

Brazil has a population of 190 million and football is there primary game shouldn't be surprised that they produce depth

Germany has 20 million more than us

There always has to be a reason why nations achieved what they did it can never be down to randomly producing 11 decent players
within the same time frame. France where the example when they were winning everything, lets do what they do. Hang on, it's not
working anymore etc

Never really thought population was much of a measure.

Why do Wales have a world class rugby team?

[creative_username_1]

Because they have a lot of individuals playing rugby in comparrisson to other nations? - dunno m8

They've been shit for a while maybe they've randomly had 15 decent players come through the ranks at the
same time. I'm sure someone will retrospectively fit something and credit the current success to it.

[soggy biscuit]

France where the example when they were winning everything, lets do what they do. Hang on, it's not working anymore etc

Like open it up for Africans to qualify to play?

[From Despair To Where?]

France where the example when they were winning everything, lets do what they do. Hang on, it's not working anymore etc

Like open it up for Africans to qualify to play?

But the French and the Germans made core changes to the game in response to the national teams being shit. Clairefontaine or whatever the French national academy was a direct response to failure to qualify for USA94. The Germans likewise after Euro2000. Maybe the French were lucky to get immediate results due to a generation of world class players but The fundamental problem in England is the coaching and the skill sets coached into players at a very young age. English football has always been about graft over craft. Even in the 20's and 30s when British coaches were going to places like Italy, Spain and South America preaching an expansive, passing style of game, they were all Scottish, not English because teh English game was seen as hoof and hope, and outmuscle your opponent That is what has to change and it will take 20 years to see results.

[Hoop Blah]

Plus the "dad-coaches" in kids' football often do massive amounts of damage to kids' development.

That's a massive sweeping generalisation there Dirk.

These volunteers are also responsible for a lot of the opportunities for kids to be involved and play football. A lot of them are also very good coaches who have played the game and then gone through the same schooling as the coaches it sounds like you think are so much better.

I think it's a bit dangerous and inaccurate to belittle the role of 'dad coaches'.

[Alexander Litvinenko]

Plus the "dad-coaches" in kids' football often do massive amounts of damage to kids' development.

That's a massive sweeping generalisation there Dirk.

These volunteers are also responsible for a lot of the opportunities for kids to be involved and play football. A lot of them are also very good coaches who have played the game and then gone through the same schooling as the coaches it sounds like you think are so much better.

I think it's a bit dangerous and inaccurate to belittle the role of 'dad coaches'.

I know, I know, it was a gross over-simplification, and without the volunteers youth development would cease to function.

But there are an awful lot of parents at clubs who think they know what they're doing from just watching the game but in reality don't have a clue, and their ideas do harm kids' development.

So it's another argument for coaches needing to be properly trained and qualified - and for those without proper coaching training needing to be kept in their place, which doesn't happen at a lot of places and does worry lots of people in youth development.

[Barry the bird boggler]

But don't these "dad" coaches have to be qualified to some degree these days or can they just volunteer to train a group of girls/boys as they see fit?

[Alexander Litvinenko]

In theory, yes, but it's a pretty basic qualification. But in reality if that was enforced there'd be far less youth football because there just aren't enough properly qualified coaches to go round.

[T.R.O.L.I.]

In theory, yes, but it's a pretty basic qualification. But in reality if that was enforced there'd be far less youth football because there just aren't enough properly qualified coaches to go round.

Can't speak for all leagues but the East Berks and Berkshire Youth Leagues now insist on caching badges for managers - yes they might be the basic level but at least it's a start.

[creative_username_1]

France where the example when they were winning everything, lets do what they do. Hang on, it's not working anymore etc

Like open it up for Africans to qualify to play?

Couldn't you lads get someone in from the Falkland Islands?

[soggy biscuit]

France where the example when they were winning everything, lets do what they do. Hang on, it's not working anymore etc

Like open it up for Africans to qualify to play?

Couldn't you lads get someone in from the Falkland Islands?

Don't think the penguins would be very welcome after choc ice-g8

[creative_username_1]

But the French and the Germans made core changes to the game in response to the national teams being shit. Clairefontaine or whatever the French national academy was a direct response to failure to qualify for USA94.

So can we credit the french national academy with the poor results they've had since then. Scraping through qualifications by a handball going out in group stages, getting as far as England in the last competition etc

Even in the 20's and 30s when British coaches were going to places like Italy, Spain and South America preaching an expansive, passing style of game, they were all Scottish, not English because teh English game was seen as hoof and hope, and outmuscle your opponent That is what has to change and it will take 20 years to see results.

Do you have evidence of this? Proper evidence like birth certificates of the coaches etc (Being a dick here ). How do you know it will take 20 years
to change. If England win the next major competition (in a similar manner to Greece) will it be credited to the new training facilities

[3 veesinarow]

St. Georges Park officially opened yesterday.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19872455

Personally, I'm hugely impressed. I think it's a giant step forward and it seems like the FA finally has a defined strategy and is using joined up thinking.

But what do you reckon? Is it worth it? Will it work? What other improvements do we need to make, to ensure the success of our national side?

It sits less than 3 miles from where I type these words -for all those saying what good is it going to do, at least it's now there and operational - were we to continue to win nothing without it, people would be moanng where are the facilities to improve our game? As usual, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Having driven past a few times in recent months, it all looks quite magnificent and surely cannot but help to improve our lot.

[Whore Jackie]

In theory, yes, but it's a pretty basic qualification. But in reality if that was enforced there'd be far less youth football because there just aren't enough properly qualified coaches to go round.

Can't speak for all leagues but the East Berks and Berkshire Youth Leagues now insist on caching badges for managers - yes they might be the basic level but at least it's a start.

Plus many of the decent local clubs won't let non-qualified managers near the kids. That said, it's some achievement, to not actually pass FA Level 1.

Think the FA are moving in the right direction, though I would question the merits of the four quarters in kids' matches, as opposed to the traditional two halves.

[Hoop Blah]

I know, I know, it was a gross over-simplification, and without the volunteers youth development would cease to function.

But there are an awful lot of parents at clubs who think they know what they're doing from just watching the game but in reality don't have a clue, and their ideas do harm kids' development.

So it's another argument for coaches needing to be properly trained and qualified - and for those without proper coaching training needing to be kept in their place, which doesn't happen at a lot of places and does worry lots of people in youth development.

I think that might've been more true 20 years ago buy these days, especially with the number of charter standard clubs around, I think that's just not really applicable any more.

[Hoop Blah]

But the French and the Germans made core changes to the game in response to the national teams being shit. Clairefontaine or whatever the French national academy was a direct response to failure to qualify for USA94.

So can we credit the french national academy with the poor results they've had since then. Scraping through qualifications by a handball going out in group stages, getting as far as England in the last competition etc

I do believe the effect of Clairefontaine is over played and their late 90's success was much more down to the effect of having two or three exceptional players come through at the same time, with Zidane being the icing on the cake and the catalyst for the trophies they won.

[Seal]

Euro 2000:England & Germany both awful - technically deficient, tactically naive, no creativity, old players.

As a result, Germany identified an issue they had with a lack of players with creative ability in their youth development structure, and specifically developed a programme to address this.

10 years later they have one of the most vibrant attacking teams in Europe, producing exciting young players such as Ozil, Gotze and Muller

We can never been Spain, but there's not reason we couldn't follow a similar path to our Saxon cousins.

St George's Park is definitely a very good thing. Judge it on our performances from Qatar 22 onwards to see how well it's working.

[creative_username_1]

Euro 2000:England & Germany both awful - technically deficient, tactically naive, no creativity, old players.

As a result, Germany identified an issue they had with a lack of players with creative ability in their youth development structure, and specifically developed a programme to address this.

10 years later they have one of the most vibrant attacking teams in Europe, producing exciting young players such as Ozil, Gotze and Mill

We can never been Spain, but there's not reason we couldn't follow a similar path to our Saxon cousins.

St George's Park is definitely a very good thing. Judge it on our performances from Qatar 22 onwards to see how well it's working.

Unfortunately we don't live in a world to be able to see what would have happened had they not developed the programs. Would the players have
come through? I can argue yes as much as no

[Green]

Euro 2000:England & Germany both awful - technically deficient, tactically naive, no creativity, old players.

As a result, Germany identified an issue they had with a lack of players with creative ability in their youth development structure, and specifically developed a programme to address this.

10 years later they have one of the most vibrant attacking teams in Europe, producing exciting young players such as Ozil, Gotze and Mill

We can never been Spain, but there's not reason we couldn't follow a similar path to our Saxon cousins.

St George's Park is definitely a very good thing. Judge it on our performances from Qatar 22 onwards to see how well it's working.

Unfortunately we don't live in a world to be able to see what would have happened had they not developed the programs. Would the players have
come through? I can argue yes as much as no

There will still be cynics around in 2022, that much is certainly true.

[Alexander Litvinenko]

I think that might've been more true 20 years ago buy these days, especially with the number of charter standard clubs around, I think that's just not really applicable any more.

Never watched or heard the parents standing behind the white line - or supposed to be behind it, anyway?