Everton

[Silver Fox]

I like Martin Samuels idea that if a player doesn't play for his loan club against his owners, he is suspended for his loan club's next game (subject to a medical).

I don't know if that works but loanees should definitely be able to play against their parent clubs, a point I've been rattling on about for years.

It wouldn't work

1) What if he scores the winner? - the fans at his parents club won't exactly welcome him back with open arms
2) What if he decides to score an own goal, to give his parent club the win?

If you can't trust them not to cheat then ban the loan system

[Angry Shed Sex]

Perhaps there should be a ruling that, for example, you couldn't play a loanee from a club that competed in a European competition against any other club that also competed in Europe? This would rule Lukaku out of playing against the top 6 this year and, er, Wigan in the FA Cup. Last year it would have stopped him playing against the top 6 for West Brom.

I know it's not perfect but it's pretty easy to understand and is enforceable.

[YateleyRoyal]

Perhaps there should be a ruling that, for example, you couldn't play a loanee from a club that competed in a European competition against any other club that also competed in Europe? This would rule Lukaku out of playing against the top 6 this year and, er, Wigan in the FA Cup. Last year it would have stopped him playing against the top 6 for West Brom.

I know it's not perfect but it's pretty easy to understand and is enforceable.

And would make the top six even stronger!

[stealthpapes]

If you can't trust them not to cheat then ban the loan system

or make a single clause that removes the one major loophole?

[Sanguine]

It would also deal to an extent with big clubs hoarding talent, as they won't be able to ship them out for experience. Take Thibault Courtois, the Chelsea keeper who has been on loan at Atletico for three years. Arguably the best young keeper in Europe, such a rule would have seen Atletico or some other club sign him permanently, and he wouldn't have ended up at a club where Petr Cech will be the first choice until he retires.

How do you enforce it - you can only sign a young player, but only if you promise not to loan him out, and he has to be a first team regular within x number of years?

Whether or not they sign him is up to the club, and whether or not the player joins them is up to the player.

But if the club is unable to loan him to another top flight team, it may make them think twice about signing him and paying his wages, and it may make the player think twice about joining the club at all.

Take the Courtois deal again - he was already a prospect when Chelsea signed him, and has been essentially ever-present in the Atletico side since he joined, barely weeks after signing for Chelsea. That loan out will have been discussed with Courtois at the time. If that loan wasn't an option, his choices would have been to sit on the bench waiting for Cech to die, or to join a different club where he would get games (like Atletico, or someone who could afford him at the time). Moreover, had a ban on top flight loans been in place, Chelsea would unlikely have signed him in the first place.

Which all seems a lot fairer, since at the time of signing him, it was not Chelsea's intention at all to actually play him.

[TBM]

Perhaps there should be a ruling that, for example, you couldn't play a loanee from a club that competed in a European competition against any other club that also competed in Europe? This would rule Lukaku out of playing against the top 6 this year and, er, Wigan in the FA Cup. Last year it would have stopped him playing against the top 6 for West Brom.

I know it's not perfect but it's pretty easy to understand and is enforceable.

And would make the top six even stronger!

Exactly

Surely it evens itself out - if Chelsea loan a player who scores the winner against Man City, there could be a Man City player loaned out to someone scoring the winner against Chelsea.

[Silver Fox]

If you can't trust them not to cheat then ban the loan system

or make a single clause that removes the one major loophole?

Alright so you stop Lukaku from playing against Chelsea twice a year, but on the last day of the season Everton and Chelsea are both trying to claim 4th place, how do you stop Lukaku from scoring an og in this one, gifting the last CL place to his parent club?

[Sanguine]

My idea is the best.

Lukaku is scoring goals for fun at Anderlecht, but because Chelsea and City don't intend to play him, they don't bid for him, and he wouldn't join anyway, since he won't get a game. This brings his transfer value down, and the likes of Everton pick him up for £10m (instead of £17m) and he fires the goals that take Everton into 4th spot and a CL place.

Share the best players and you share the wealth of the game.

[stealthpapes]

If you can't trust them not to cheat then ban the loan system

or make a single clause that removes the one major loophole?

Alright so you stop Lukaku from playing against Chelsea twice a year, but on the last day of the season Everton and Chelsea are both trying to claim 4th place, how do you stop Lukaku from scoring an og in this one, gifting the last CL place to his parent club?

You see, I don't consider that a major loophole.

If it ever happens, I'll send you a "Well done" cupcake.

[TBM]

My idea is the best.

Lukaku is scoring goals for fun at Anderlecht, but because Chelsea and City don't intend to play him, they don't bid for him, and he wouldn't join anyway, since he won't get a game. This brings his transfer value down, and the likes of Everton pick him up for £10m (instead of £17m) and he fires the goals that take Everton into 4th spot and a CL place.

Share the best players and you share the wealth of the game.

At 17 years old and scoring goals for fun at Anderlecht - do you really think the big clubs would have ignored him?

What i don't understand though, is that Lukaku is Chelseas best striker yet they felt he's better off elsewhere whilst they bring in a 32 year old has been.

[stealthpapes]

I think its no great surprise that sometimes clubs make decisions based on a) youth vs experience and b) the 'name' of the player that don't really work out.

[YateleyRoyal]

My idea is the best.

Lukaku is scoring goals for fun at Anderlecht, but because Chelsea and City don't intend to play him, they don't bid for him, and he wouldn't join anyway, since he won't get a game. This brings his transfer value down, and the likes of Everton pick him up for £10m (instead of £17m) and he fires the goals that take Everton into 4th spot and a CL place.

Share the best players and you share the wealth of the game.

But how can you tell if it is their intention to play him or not? Things change - if he impresses in training, if he fits in with your system better than an existing player, if someone else gets an injury etc - then he could play.

Also, who do you have to prove it to whether or not your intention is to play someone.

Also, what happens if you say you intend to play a player, buy them, and then dont play them - do you get a fine? Have to sell them?

[TBM]

Also, what happens if you say you intend to play a player, buy them, and then dont play them - do you get a fine? Have to sell them?

......or loan them out

Oh!

[YateleyRoyal]

Also, what happens if you say you intend to play a player, buy them, and then dont play them - do you get a fine? Have to sell them?

......or loan them out

Oh!

Hi5, friend.

[Angry Shed Sex]

Perhaps there should be a ruling that, for example, you couldn't play a loanee from a club that competed in a European competition against any other club that also competed in Europe? This would rule Lukaku out of playing against the top 6 this year and, er, Wigan in the FA Cup. Last year it would have stopped him playing against the top 6 for West Brom.

I know it's not perfect but it's pretty easy to understand and is enforceable.

And would make the top six even stronger!

Exactly

Surely it evens itself out - if Chelsea loan a player who scores the winner against Man City, there could be a Man City player loaned out to someone scoring the winner against Chelsea.

But there isn't. That's an incredibly unlikely scenario. I was just looking at the top 6 moans at the moment. On reflection it's a rubbish proposal and I withdraw it unconditionally.

Perhaps it's just better they can only be loaned out to another country.

[NewCorkSeth]

As enjoyable as it is to watch Everton playing so well does anyone else get the feeling that it is going to be fleeting?
Lukaku, Barry and Spanish boy are loans (With Lukaku and Barry being key to Evertons good form)
Barkley is bound to be bought by City like Rodwell was
Baines will be off to United to join a sinking ship
Coleman will be off to Arsenal to replace Sagna
Distin is 35, Piennar is 31 as is Jagielka and Osman is 32 (Their squad is quite old)
Soon all they will have left is Kevin Mirallas and Brian Oviedo

Lets not all hop on the bandwagon just yet.

[TBM]

As enjoyable as it is to watch Everton playing so well does anyone else get the feeling that it is going to be fleeting?
Lukaku, Barry and Spanish boy are loans (With Lukaku and Barry being key to Evertons good form)
Barkley is bound to be bought by City like Rodwell was
Baines will be off to United to join a sinking ship
Coleman will be off to Arsenal to replace Sagna
Distin is 35, Piennar is 31 as is Jagielka and Osman is 32 (Their squad is quite old)
Soon all they will have left is Kevin Mirallas and Brian Oviedo

Lets not all hop on the bandwagon just yet.

This is true but if they get top 4 this season it means £££££££'s plus the possibility of keeping those players

[NewCorkSeth]

As enjoyable as it is to watch Everton playing so well does anyone else get the feeling that it is going to be fleeting?
Lukaku, Barry and Spanish boy are loans (With Lukaku and Barry being key to Evertons good form)
Barkley is bound to be bought by City like Rodwell was
Baines will be off to United to join a sinking ship
Coleman will be off to Arsenal to replace Sagna
Distin is 35, Piennar is 31 as is Jagielka and Osman is 32 (Their squad is quite old)
Soon all they will have left is Kevin Mirallas and Brian Oviedo

Lets not all hop on the bandwagon just yet.

This is true but if they get top 4 this season it means £££££££'s plus the possibility of keeping those players

If they make it past the January window! Baines has a big chance of moving and depending how Sagna's contract negotiations go Coleman could be off sooner rather than later.

Don't forget that Martinez signed Kone as his striker before getting Lukaku on loan.. add that in with Jelavic and it is a decidedly impotent attack force. Do you trust Martinez to make the right signings? I can see Everton following the same path it walked under Moyes. Almost top 4 ever quite getting there.

[stealthpapes]

... and?

With a fraction of the money other teams spend, Everton should be applauded for giving it a shot.

Incidentally, where I thought Moyes tended to struggle was in signing strikers that were good for more than 6 months. I imagine this is to do with tactics and budget. If Martinez can cut that Gordian knot, and some of the bigger clubs continue to struggle then I don't see why not.

[NewCorkSeth]

... and?

With a fraction of the money other teams spend, Everton should be applauded for giving it a shot.

Incidentally, where I thought Moyes tended to struggle was in signing strikers that were good for more than 6 months. I imagine this is to do with tactics and budget. If Martinez can cut that Gordian knot, and some of the bigger clubs continue to struggle then I don't see why not.

Nobody said they shouldnt be applauded. In fact I said I was enjoying watching them play so well. My point was simply its nigh on impossible for them to keep it up so lets not all hop on the "Everton are the next great English football team" bandwagon