Safe-Standing petition

[Ian Royal]

I dont have anything against safe standing but it would be a right pisser for anybody who has a ST in an area changed to safe standing who doesnt want to stand.
And before the standers start with the old "well they can move" stuff just imagine if they decided that the Safe Standing area would be Y19 or Somewhere other than Y26. How pissed off would you be then?

Not in the slightest. I'd be mildly miffed if it was North stand because I prefer being along the side of the pitch, but I'd prefer the option to stand far more.

Apart from being near pals, I don't really get the attachment to a particular seat. I understand wanting to be in a certain part of the ground, but getting precious about being asked to move less than 100 yards? Seriously?


Most of the arguments against safe standing seem to come from a total position of ignorance.

[RG30]

ticket is for that allocated numbered standing point. No surges, no over-crowding.

Don't believe that's the case. Stood in safe-standing areas at FC Nurnberg and Stuttgart and the stewards tend to direct you where there is availability.

[Green]

It all kind've makes sense, its just that stigma that has to be gotten over......believe me, i am on nobodies side here.

I agree and I'm also on the fence.

I think it's a desperate shame that all seater stadia were enforced on us, it's killed the game I loved. On the other hand, this safe standing nonsense is just standing in an all seater stadia as far as I can tell. Too little too late for this disgruntled former fan.

[P!ssed Off]

It all kind've makes sense, its just that stigma that has to be gotten over......believe me, i am on nobodies side here.

I agree and I'm also on the fence.

I think it's a desperate shame that all seater stadia were enforced on us, it's killed the game I loved. On the other hand, this safe standing nonsense is just standing in an all seater stadia as far as I can tell. Too little too late for this disgruntled former fan.

Some people are getting far too carried away by the fact there are seats seemingly involved. But you can't sit on them, they will be fixed upright. They do not work and are merely there to comply with other tournaments that are seated only, or for other non-football events.

As for people like TBM who say they would find terracing too tiring, that's a positive of the barriers in front - you can just lean on them.

[Green]

Dunno if I'm one of these people "getting carried away", but what I liked about the terracing was being able to stand where you liked (negating the need to book six weeks in advance so you could sit next to your mate who has a ST), the surge of the crowd, the tightly packed crowd for a big game, and just the general feel of being on a terrace. Safe standing isn't that, it's just standing up whilst watching the match - what's the point?

Have you for example been to the Reading festival pissed off? Compare that to "safe standing" in a stadium for a gig and you'll get where I'm coming from. It's just not the same thing - which I appreciate isn't a reason not to do it, just that it's not for me.

[Ian Royal]

Dunno if I'm one of these people "getting carried away", but what I liked about the terracing was being able to stand where you liked (negating the need to book six weeks in advance so you could sit next to your mate who has a ST), the surge of the crowd, the tightly packed crowd for a big game, and just the general feel of being on a terrace. Safe standing isn't that, it's just standing up whilst watching the match - what's the point?

Have you for example been to the Reading festival pissed off? Compare that to "safe standing" in a stadium for a gig and you'll get where I'm coming from. It's just not the same thing - which I appreciate isn't a reason not to do it, just that it's not for me.

So don't do it. But why not support those who want to? It's not like anyone is suggesting all seater stadiums being converted to all safe standing stadiums.

You want to sit down. I support your choice. Why can't you support my choice to stand up where I won't be in anyone's way?

[Green]

Yep absolutely Ian - good luck to you. Just saying it's not for me but all the best and for the record, you continue with my blessing.

[P!ssed Off]

Dunno if I'm one of these people "getting carried away", but what I liked about the terracing was being able to stand where you liked (negating the need to book six weeks in advance so you could sit next to your mate who has a ST), the surge of the crowd, the tightly packed crowd for a big game, and just the general feel of being on a terrace. Safe standing isn't that, it's just standing up whilst watching the match - what's the point?

Have you for example been to the Reading festival pissed off? Compare that to "safe standing" in a stadium for a gig and you'll get where I'm coming from. It's just not the same thing - which I appreciate isn't a reason not to do it, just that it's not for me.

Been to Reading Festival twice mate.
Out for having a mosh pit on a steep concrete slope tbh.

I understand your comparison but Reading Festival does not take place on a steep concrete slope. If it did, I'm sure there would be plenty of barriers about.

[Will95]

Venues like Hammersmith Apollo are sloped with fairly (though not quite as) unforgiving floors with thousands of people stood on them moshing/jumping/pushing and shoving and there is never really any incidents. Admittedly the slope is less severe, but there is nothing intrinsically wrong with old style terracing, it is the control over amount of people in the area that is the problem (Hillsborough) or the behaviour of the people on there (Ibrox, caused by people wishing to return into the ground and causing a block on the stairs, not the terrace) that causes issues.

[HoneyRoastHoax]

Well worth reading this website http://www.gkstill.com/CV/Modelling/CrowdCollapse.html

Interesting modeling. Its not as safe as you think

[Tony Le Mesmer]

Out of interest, what has been stopping a lower league club introducing 'safe standing' until now? Normal terracing is still allowed, so im guessing it was just a cost thing?

[Brian's left bollock]

I guess a lot of lower league clubs wouldn't want to spend money on safe standing as they will have ambitions to get in the championship.

[Green]

Dunno if I'm one of these people "getting carried away", but what I liked about the terracing was being able to stand where you liked (negating the need to book six weeks in advance so you could sit next to your mate who has a ST), the surge of the crowd, the tightly packed crowd for a big game, and just the general feel of being on a terrace. Safe standing isn't that, it's just standing up whilst watching the match - what's the point?

Have you for example been to the Reading festival pissed off? Compare that to "safe standing" in a stadium for a gig and you'll get where I'm coming from. It's just not the same thing - which I appreciate isn't a reason not to do it, just that it's not for me.

Been to Reading Festival twice mate.
Out for having a mosh pit on a steep concrete slope tbh.

I understand your comparison but Reading Festival does not take place on a steep concrete slope. If it did, I'm sure there would be plenty of barriers about.

One every five or six steps used to be the norm.

[melonhead]

didnt bristol city have this rail seating when we beat them at their place when cisse scored?

[Royal Lady]

Surely the seats won't be fixed in a position where you can't sit on them, due to needing them as seats for the Rugby or whatever? And also, say something happened, god forbid, and they decided to abandon safe standing, then the seats are already there without having to close part of the stadium until seats were repositioned.

However, safe standing is no longer my cup of tea, but I fully understand those people who do want it, so I hope, for their sakes, that it eventually gets passed.

[biscuitman]

didnt bristol city have this rail seating when we beat them at their place when cisse scored?

Obviously not.

[Ian Royal]

Surely the seats won't be fixed in a position where you can't sit on them, due to needing them as seats for the Rugby or whatever? And also, say something happened, god forbid, and they decided to abandon safe standing, then the seats are already there without having to close part of the stadium until seats were repositioned.

However, safe standing is no longer my cup of tea, but I fully understand those people who do want it, so I hope, for their sakes, that it eventually gets passed.

I think the design is that you bolt the seats into the up position so they can't be used to sit on for occasions you're using safe standing, and you unbolt them for when you want seating. Otherwise I don't see how you could get an increase in capacity.

[Royal Biscuitman]

The Premier League have said they aren't going to support the petition:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/12830836.stm

Looks a bit like Elm Park in that picture...

The Premier League would say that, wouldn't they?

The Premier League want everyone to be sitting at home in front of their TV's watching.

[Royal Biscuitman]

cant see any safety concerns at all if the standing is as in germany.

all of the dinosaurs saying i was at hillsborough, we cant go back to those days etc on the radio, dont do it are arguing against something else entirely.

IMHO Hillsborough was more about so called safety fences and lack of control over admittance and poor policing. Without the safety fences there we'd probably be talking about Hillsborough as that time time fans over spilled onto the pitch causing a game to be postponed.

[Will95]

One of my college lecturers was at Hillsborough and blames the policing and crowd control and backs the return of standing so.