Team Brighton - World Police!

[floyd__streete]

In the current issue of When Saturday Comes, there is an article about anti-homophobic organisations in football, Brighton Supporters Club being seemingly at the forefront and there is a comment from their spokeswoman speaking about how she feels uncomfortable hearing homophobic chanting in case there is a LGBT fan sat near her “unable to defend themself” (curious choice of phrase). If anything ever summed up the modern phenomenon of folk feeling outraged on behalf of others.

On Monday night I noted a ‘No To Hull Tigers’ banner during the televised Hull vs Brighton game.....in the away end.

Very noble I am sure, but it seems our south coast friends – now they have a soulless plastic bowl of their own – are keen to continue taking football’s moral high-ground on behalf of us all, saving ourselves from ourselves.

Good to see a bit of fan solidarity on one hand, but in Brighton's case it always seems to smack of self-importance at its worst

[Sanguine]

Does it?

When people raise stuff like this I always think it says more about them than the group they are complaining about.

How does this affect you, or I'll be fair and extend it to RFC, exactly?

[floyd__streete]

Edited my post to explain my minor beef with it. And I posted in General Football as it is non-RFC specific, m8.

My issue being – there might be LGBT fans who attend football who actually think some of the homophobic chants are amusing in a self-effacing way.

More likely, there might be Hull fans who think that Hull Tigers would be a brilliant marketing ploy.

I am just unsure whether straight Brighton fans really should be acting as a moral compass for the rest of us and speaking on behalf of LGBT supporters or Hull fans

[Sanguine]

Maybe you don't need to take the fight up for gays who like chants about bumming.

[Ouroboros]

So you're saying that there shouldn't be anti-homophobia groups, or banners at football, because some people might not agree with them.

Ok then.

[Cureton's Volley]

Brighton can take no moral high ground after shitting in the away dressing room ahead of the play-off semi...

[floyd__streete]

So you're saying that there shouldn't be anti-homophobia groups, or banners at football, because some people might not agree with them.

Not at all. I am saying that the culture of people being continually 'horrified' and 'outraged' on behalf of others is endemic in this litigatious day and age and extends to much more than just the homophobia issue - as per my example regarding Hull Tigers - and in my opinion this isn't necessarily a good thing.

[Sanguine]

Why not?

As in my first reply, what 'harm' is it doing anyone?

There aren't many (or any) minority issues like homophobia in football that couldn't do with more publicity. Football is a community - so some away fans had a banner against the renaming of Hull City, it's something I don't want to see either. What's the harm in the protest?

[floyd__streete]

Anyway, we’re moving from the point here – I clearly haven’t expressed it well enough, apologies. I shall re-emphasise.

For clarity: I have no issue with Brighton supporting anti-Homophobic campaigns. I have no issue with anti-homophobic campaigns. It was more the appallingly expressed point of being “horrified for supporters who can’t defend themselves”.

Defend themselves? Who says they have to ‘defend’ themselves? Any civilised human being accepts that attending/playing in a football match as a LGBT person is 100% fine. They have nothing to 'defend'. So - that said - why do you assume they would want or need to? And why assume they can’t challenge the behaviour themselves (admittedly difficult if several hundred supporters are chanting nonsense - but they could report to police, stewards).

If the lady in question can’t phrase her campaign message properly then she shouldn’t be getting involved in it. This is the kind of problem you get when people seem to actively look to take offence on behalf of others.

[Sanguine]

But why does it bother you?

It sounds like it's the lesbian, gay or bisexual football fan who should be getting offended. Why assume that the lesbatron Brighton supporter isn' fully behind the campaign, but not really confident enough to speak up in support of it?

[floyd__streete]

But why does it bother you?

Because poorly expressed (in my opinion) sentiments such as the one I have quoted above dilute the issue. Much like Jason Roberts getting a cob on for Roy Hodgson making a joke about an astronaut and a monkey. You risk devaluing the argument.

I can recall taking a train back from London the same day as demonstrations regarding one of the wars our country got itself involved in under Blair, Afghanistan I think. An elderly lady on the train spoke at length on her mobile phone about her involvement in the event and signed off by saying with undisguised glee "see you on the next one!". Why would you feel so gleeful about something you feel so strongly to campaign against? Bandwagon jumping I am cynical as to whether people care enough about the issues they campaign about or whether they secretly are motivated by the feeling of self-importance. If it is the latter then I suspect you might just end up with poorly considered statements such as that uttered by the Brighton lady!

[Ouroboros]

And why assume they can’t challenge the behaviour themselves (admittedly difficult if several hundred supporters are chanting nonsense - but they could report to police, stewards)

This bit was supposed to be a joke, right?

[Handsome Man]

So you're saying that there shouldn't be anti-homophobia groups, or banners at football, because some people might not agree with them.

Not at all. I am saying that the culture of people being continually 'horrified' and 'outraged' on behalf of others is endemic in this litigatious day and age and extends to much more than just the homophobia issue - as per my example regarding Hull Tigers - and in my opinion this isn't necessarily a good thing.

The words outrage and horrified are your own interpretation here. The word you used in the direct quote from the lbgt-friend was uncomfortable, which is slightly different. You are also bringing in litigation into the argument for no apparent reason. I just don't see what you are getting upset about. You are making up things to get aggrieved over like a stereotypical knee-jerking Daily Mail reader.

[floyd__streete]

You are making up things to get aggrieved over like a stereotypical knee-jerking Daily Mail reader.

Stereotyping eh

Classic sign of the intolerant.

[Ian Royal]

I get you Floyd. I get this sort of thing at work as well, although it tends to be "But what if I'd been elderly".

It's not for an individual to assume distress on the part of someone else and campaign to prevent it for them. Support the campaign of those who are actually affected by all means. At absolute minimum you should speak to the people you are concerned need supporting and ask them about it. She's assuming people need her to defend them because they're incapable of defending themselves. Personally, I'd find that more offensive.

All this amounts to is "I'm offended because I think someone else might be offended". Well, what if no one is offended? You're just wasting everyone's time and causing trouble for those who aren't actually offending anyone.

[Sanguine]

You and Floyd are assuming this hypothetical person doesn't want defending.

[Ian Royal]

You and Floyd are assuming this hypothetical person doesn't want defending.

No, we're saying the person doing the defending should find out if it's wanted before they assume it's necessary.

Who am I to arbitrarily decide that someone might be offended by something and start a campaign to stop it?

Facts and evidence, not assumption and guesswork.

[Bandini]

I agree with Floyd that BHA fans are self-important terriblecunts.

He's wrong to say that all bumders are like this though as some are perfectly decent chaps who just like cock.

[stealthpapes]

I liked it when Matt Lucas went to watch Brighton and found the chanting all terribly funny.

Hull Tigers is a bigger crime against humanity than a few less-than-articulate chants done solely with the intention of getting a rise out of people.

[Royalclapper]

I think this type of thing is akin to the preaching pop stars who suddenly find themselves with a quasi-legendary status and then have breakouts of self-importance.

Bono, Sting, Michael Stipe 'we'll make the world a better place' cringey soapbox speeches to their fans/anyone who'll listen. It's not so much that they may well be doing some decent and worthwhile campaigning, it's more that you suspect it's driven partially by their inflated sense of self-worth. Same with Brighton & HA one would think, ever since they've got back on their feet and into their new stadium, they've been like a recovering drug addict who's suddenly found God and wants to spread the good word.