MATCHWATCH : Wigan Athletic (a)

[traff]

“Turgid” is the word that comes to mind watching this team.
It really feels like we are being turned into a yo-yo northern club, à la Rotherham, bouncing between League One and the Championship while playing boring, attritional football.

Personally, I would rather see us play attractive football and just miss out on promotion than battle at the bottom end of the Championship playing this unimaginative, formulaic dross, i.e., picking the wrong-lane Paddy over Young or anyone else for that matter. WTF!

I am not a Reading supporter because I expect us to be hunting trophies every season. I just want to be entertained.

I predict that excitement and creativity will be very Leamited while Richardson is in charge.

Jesus X - a yo yo team? I wish. Some fans are really so self entitled it makes you weep.

Good point, maybe I was stretching it abit comparing us to Rotherham. How about Port Vale?

[Extended-Phenotype]

Missed the game. Anyone have any idea how we lined up? BBC seemed to think it was a 4-3-2-1, but Dorsett being interchangably a CB and FB, we could have shaped up to be 3 at the back with Roberts and Nyambe WBs in a sort of 3-4-2-1, or obviously something fluid between the two.

I was hoping the loss of Keane might have forced Leam's hand into reverting to a better shape that wasn't trying to fit new toys into the starting lineup for the sake of it. Result went our way, but the game reads quite miserably on this thread which is a shame (though HNA is typically biased towards glass-half-empty, so calibrating is fairly easy).

My takeaway from the comments is Lane and Doyle were standout disappointments, while Ward was a potential highlight. It seems fair enough to assume that Doyle lacking the strength in the AM spot (if indeed that's where he played) means our final third dominance and creativity is lacking. Could a single change be the difference between shite and shiny football? Or are our problems much deeper than that?

Do we have any alternative who might be able to step into that role?

- Savage
- Rino
- Randal
- Young
- Camara
- Lane
- Danny K
- Wing
- Fraser
- Elliott (if he's ever fit again)
- Wing

Looking at that list I can see why LR has occasionally tried Savage in there. Didn't love it when I saw it but maybe it's worth persevering with to see where it goes. Doyle just isn't cutting it and he's a loaner anyway. Maybe it's time to say "sorry bud, it just hasn't worked out", because I seriously think most of our problems stem from a weakness in this position.

[RoyalBlue]

Missed the game. Anyone have any idea how we lined up? BBC seemed to think it was a 4-3-2-1, but Dorsett being interchangably a CB and FB, we could have shaped up to be 3 at the back with Roberts and Nyambe WBs in a sort of 3-4-2-1, or obviously something fluid between the two.

I was hoping the loss of Keane might have forced Leam's hand into reverting to a better shape that wasn't trying to fit new toys into the starting lineup for the sake of it. Result went our way, but the game reads quite miserably on this thread which is a shame (though HNA is typically biased towards glass-half-empty, so calibrating is fairly easy).

My takeaway from the comments is Lane and Doyle were standout disappointments,

I thought Doyle did OK. At least he tries to create openings and provided a good assist for our first goal.

[RoyalBlue]

It was hardly a game to make the neutral fall in love with football was it? Maybe I’ve been watching too much PL, CL and Serie A games recently, because that really was dire.

But, Dorsett is coming along really well. He’s all round a lot more solid and there are fewer of the silly mistakes that blighted him earlier.

.

It's a shame that he decided to take a nap and completely lose track of his man for their goal. Watching the replay, he was actually goal side of him initially but seemed to hesitate and just let their guy ghost past him to get into a 1 on 1 with JP.

[Hound]

Ward did look good. Aggressive as well. Couple of mistakes but lots of potential

It was a shame not to see Young. Lane, Doyle and Ritchie all too similar and just don’t do enough for me. Would play one of those plus Kelvin and Young. Think we’d be a far more interesting watch

We don’t look miles off it. Some nice stuff at times but it all slows down when we get to the final third

Think you’re being a little harsh on Doyle, progressed well after a disappointing start. Picks up pockets of space well and is often the “link” from defence to attack on the occasions we do put together a move

Particularly in away games where there’s a bit more space to play in. 3 assists in his last 3 away games, a goal at Plymouth, a goal at Blackpool, all within the space of just over a couple of months

There are reasons for Kelvin to start, for a degree of physicality (especially with Keane injured) and due to the non existent contribution of the likes of Lane but I think he has a better impact off the bench and our options to “change” things would look quite limited if he started as a bench of Lane and Ritchie as our attacking options would be poor

I don’t totally disagree. I don’t think Lane, Doyle or Ritchie are necessarily bad players. Doyle’s done so ok stuff and stats aren’t bad - it’s just the mix of him, Lane, Marriott and Ritchie just doesn’t work for me. I’d be ok with Doyle starting alongside bigger, stronger quicker players.

Tbf scoring hasn’t been a problem all season so something is working - it just seems to click so rarely in a game

Also agree that no Kelvin on the bench and we have no plan B. It’s a bit harsh on him but that’s where we are

He is far from perfect but gets far more involved than the others when he’s on the pitch - at least he is always looks to be positive and make something happen

[JedMaxwell]

I'll never turn my nose up at an away win but that game was utter dross.

[Hound]

Missed the game. Anyone have any idea how we lined up? BBC seemed to think it was a 4-3-2-1, but Dorsett being interchangably a CB and FB, we could have shaped up to be 3 at the back with Roberts and Nyambe WBs in a sort of 3-4-2-1, or obviously something fluid between the two.

I was hoping the loss of Keane might have forced Leam's hand into reverting to a better shape that wasn't trying to fit new toys into the starting lineup for the sake of it. Result went our way, but the game reads quite miserably on this thread which is a shame (though HNA is typically biased towards glass-half-empty, so calibrating is fairly easy).

My takeaway from the comments is Lane and Doyle were standout disappointments, while Ward was a potential highlight. It seems fair enough to assume that Doyle lacking the strength in the AM spot (if indeed that's where he played) means our final third dominance and creativity is lacking. Could a single change be the difference between shite and shiny football? Or are our problems much deeper than that?

Do we have any alternative who might be able to step into that role?

- Savage
- Rino
- Randal
- Young
- Camara
- Lane
- Danny K
- Wing
- Fraser
- Elliott (if he's ever fit again)
- Wing

Looking at that list I can see why LR has occasionally tried Savage in there. Didn't love it when I saw it but maybe it's worth persevering with to see where it goes. Doyle just isn't cutting it and he's a loaner anyway. Maybe it's time to say "sorry bud, it just hasn't worked out", because I seriously think most of our problems stem from a weakness in this position.

I don’t think he was trying to squeeze Keane in. He is generally known as being best as a number 10; which I guess is close enough to a CAM

The idea is right - someone who can hold up and link play as well as get in the end of a cross - Whether he has done that successfully or not - tbh haven’t watched much of the games he played but sounds like not really

It seems like whatever combination we play it sounds like the attacking shape doesn’t look right whoever plays

[Armadillo Roadkill]

It was hardly a game to make the neutral fall in love with football was it? Maybe I’ve been watching too much PL, CL and Serie A games recently, because that really was dire.

But, Dorsett is coming along really well. He’s all round a lot more solid and there are fewer of the silly mistakes that blighted him earlier.

.

It's a shame that he decided to take a nap and completely lose track of his man for their goal. Watching the replay, he was actually goal side of him initially but seemed to hesitate and just let their guy ghost past him to get into a 1 on 1 with JP.

I hadn't watched the highlights when I made my original post.

Richardson called out Dorsett's error in his post match, which I don't like at all.

Having watched it in slow motion, it's hard to see just how he lost his man, because like you said, he started off in the right position. I had missed this watching in real time.

I an effort to recover my dignity and make it look like I wasn't completely wrong, I choose to call it a run-of-the-mill defensive error rather than an absolute howler.

[Snowflake Royal]

Ward looks the business

Yes, couple of times he actually managed to cover by being able to run

A few more games and he should become fairly key to the set up.

I think we all need to cool our beans. We keep proclaiming players to be the messiah based on one performance and then half a dozen games later deciding they're shit.

Hopefully he can maintain this and grow further into the team and he could form an excellent partnership with Williams, or even Williams and Paudie, but its too early to really say anything other than promising debut.

[Snowflake Royal]

It was hardly a game to make the neutral fall in love with football was it? Maybe I’ve been watching too much PL, CL and Serie A games recently, because that really was dire.

But, Dorsett is coming along really well. He’s all round a lot more solid and there are fewer of the silly mistakes that blighted him earlier. The goals are a very welcome bonus.

Ward looked class. He’s got real pace, aggression and anticipation. Made one howler that came to nothing, thankfully. I expect he will just get better as he settles in.

I appreciate Doyle’s application and work rate. At least he was full of ideas.

Nyambe seems determined to make life difficult by always turning into trouble. I’m really not convinced by him.

How many times does Wing try and make a thirty metre pass that just goes directly to the opposition? If we can be said to have a style of play, then Wing’s long passes to lose possession are probably it.

It was dreadful by L1 standards.


I'm losing patience with Dorsett, I don't think he has improved.

[Snowflake Royal]

I think Lane is suffering from low confidence at the moment - maybe he needs a bit of motivational booing? But seriously, I think there is a good player in there but at the moment he's not playing well and his decision making is poor ... but I live in hope. He was definitely rated at Pompey.

I think he's suffering from poor movement and passing. And a lack of devastating pace or skill.

Normally I think he plays ok without really doing a whole lot of good, but last night he really was poor.

Nyambe kept playing poor passes to him that were either a stretch to control, went out/to opposition or he had to come back towards his own goal with a player tight on his back to receive. Very few L1 wingers are doing anything with that.

Where Lane is best, usually, is facing goal, passing round the box, and making a yard of space to cross. It’s not bamboozling defenders with skill, or spinning his man to get in behind or beating anyone for pace.

But there's too often no good link between defensive third and offensive third, we bypass the middle third by either going over it or racing through it.

IMO a good AM transforms this team. Doyle is getting better, but he's pushed off the ball too easily and isn’t doing enough to link midfield and attack, show for passes deep enough etc. And Keane wasn't even doing the little Doyle does for it.

I don't think it helped that we didn't really have a shape last night. It looked like the players didn’t know if they were playing 4-2-3-1, 4-4-2 or 5-2-2-1 which isn’t even an actual shape I've ever seen.

[Snowflake Royal]

Missed the game. Anyone have any idea how we lined up? BBC seemed to think it was a 4-3-2-1, but Dorsett being interchangably a CB and FB, we could have shaped up to be 3 at the back with Roberts and Nyambe WBs in a sort of 3-4-2-1, or obviously something fluid between the two.

I was hoping the loss of Keane might have forced Leam's hand into reverting to a better shape that wasn't trying to fit new toys into the starting lineup for the sake of it. Result went our way, but the game reads quite miserably on this thread which is a shame (though HNA is typically biased towards glass-half-empty, so calibrating is fairly easy).

My takeaway from the comments is Lane and Doyle were standout disappointments, while Ward was a potential highlight. It seems fair enough to assume that Doyle lacking the strength in the AM spot (if indeed that's where he played) means our final third dominance and creativity is lacking. Could a single change be the difference between shite and shiny football? Or are our problems much deeper than that?

Do we have any alternative who might be able to step into that role?

- Savage
- Rino
- Randal
- Young
- Camara
- Lane
- Danny K
- Wing
- Fraser
- Elliott (if he's ever fit again)
- Wing

Looking at that list I can see why LR has occasionally tried Savage in there. Didn't love it when I saw it but maybe it's worth persevering with to see where it goes. Doyle just isn't cutting it and he's a loaner anyway. Maybe it's time to say "sorry bud, it just hasn't worked out", because I seriously think most of our problems stem from a weakness in this position.

We didn’t have a shape. Lane and Doyle just wandered around seemingly at random.

[Hound]

Missed the game. Anyone have any idea how we lined up? BBC seemed to think it was a 4-3-2-1, but Dorsett being interchangably a CB and FB, we could have shaped up to be 3 at the back with Roberts and Nyambe WBs in a sort of 3-4-2-1, or obviously something fluid between the two.

I was hoping the loss of Keane might have forced Leam's hand into reverting to a better shape that wasn't trying to fit new toys into the starting lineup for the sake of it. Result went our way, but the game reads quite miserably on this thread which is a shame (though HNA is typically biased towards glass-half-empty, so calibrating is fairly easy).

My takeaway from the comments is Lane and Doyle were standout disappointments, while Ward was a potential highlight. It seems fair enough to assume that Doyle lacking the strength in the AM spot (if indeed that's where he played) means our final third dominance and creativity is lacking. Could a single change be the difference between shite and shiny football? Or are our problems much deeper than that?

Do we have any alternative who might be able to step into that role?

- Savage
- Rino
- Randal
- Young
- Camara
- Lane
- Danny K
- Wing
- Fraser
- Elliott (if he's ever fit again)
- Wing

Looking at that list I can see why LR has occasionally tried Savage in there. Didn't love it when I saw it but maybe it's worth persevering with to see where it goes. Doyle just isn't cutting it and he's a loaner anyway. Maybe it's time to say "sorry bud, it just hasn't worked out", because I seriously think most of our problems stem from a weakness in this position.

We didn’t have a shape. Lane and Doyle just wandered around seemingly at random.

It was a 3-4-2-1 wasn’t it? Doyle and Lane behind Marriott

Tbh it didn’t work any better or worse than anything else he’s tried recently imo. Lane is just too risk free and neat and tidy for that role

I dunno. Think we’d just work best as closer to an old school 4-4-2 with Lane/Ritchie (crossing) on one wing, DK/Williams/Young (pace) on the other with JM and Keane or Kelvin as the 2

Though I realise 4-4-2 is a bit problematic in itself nowadays, too easily overrun in midfield.

What games and system have we genuinely looked good consistently this year? I’m scratching my head

[Mr Angry]

Horrible game to watch, but, as the old cliche goes, if you play poorly and win 3 points...........

Let's face it; not that long ago that would have been a nailed on 3/4-0 defeat, so we have to take the positives. Additionally, if our finishing had been better, we would have been 3-0 up before Wigan equalised, so whilst I get the negative posts on here, we have to look for - and take - the positives.

[Mr Angry]

359 Royals fans made the trip.

Fair play to them. Tuesday night away in February to watch Wigan vs Reading.

Fairest play ever, was the brave 13 or so who, under the great days of Bullivant, went to Stockport to witness a 5-1 embarrassment on a Tuesday.

In a Northern monsoon of a night as well....

[traff]

I think Lane is suffering from low confidence at the moment - maybe he needs a bit of motivational booing? But seriously, I think there is a good player in there but at the moment he's not playing well and his decision making is poor ... but I live in hope. He was definitely rated at Pompey.

I think he's suffering from poor movement and passing. And a lack of devastating pace or skill.

Normally I think he plays ok without really doing a whole lot of good, but last night he really was poor.

I think even Tommy Burns,(god rest his soul) would have turmed him down in favour of Sean Evers, even with hindsight!

[Extended-Phenotype]

I don’t think he was trying to squeeze Keane in. He is generally known as being best as a number 10; which I guess is close enough to a CAM

I'm no expert, but I can't find much about him being referred to as anything other than a striker. He's on record calling himself a striker in his RFC interview. A second striker isn't really the same as a #10/CAM. Same space, sure. But the former is focused on goal scoring, making runs behind the defensive line, holding up the ball and providing a fast, direct feed from midfield to the main forward. The 10 is more focused on being the creative hub that dictates play, orchestrates attacks, threads passes and spotting gaps with intelligence and vision. I could be wrong, but Keane seems far more the former than the latter.

It seems like whatever combination we play it sounds like the attacking shape doesn’t look right whoever plays

Perhaps because we keep playing second strikers in there. You could get away with em in a 4-4-2 when midfields were more open (before everyone started packing them with players), or with quick wingers willing to beat their man working around the congestion (a bit like Reading used to do in the Glory Days). But it feels like a CAM is really what we want. Doyle was supposed to be that man but he can't keep the ball for longer than a second. Assuming Keane isn't a good fit, and Doyle is a lost hope, is there anyone else on the list worth trying?

[Extended-Phenotype]

We didn’t have a shape. Lane and Doyle just wandered around seemingly at random.

I thought it might be me being thick for not being able to figure out what our formation was (still possible). But it's been pretty difficult under LR. At first I thought it meant we were playing a more advanced and fluid game, but now I'm wondering if it's causing too much confusion. I said a while back; I'm a big advocate of fluid football, but I think it's something you grow into from an initial plan of clearly defined roles.

Midfield has and remains our biggest puzzle. Savage and Wing are fine, but our attacking mids seem to draw their positions from a oxf*rd raffle every game.

[South Coast Royal]

Ward looks the business

Yes, couple of times he actually managed to cover by being able to run

A few more games and he should become fairly key to the set up.

I think we all need to cool our beans. We keep proclaiming players to be the messiah based on one performance and then half a dozen games later deciding they're shit.

Hopefully he can maintain this and grow further into the team and he could form an excellent partnership with Williams, or even Williams and Paudie, but its too early to really say anything other than promising debut.

This is a Wigan side that has scored just 2 goals now in their last 5 home games and started with an 18 year old striker so , I agree with Ian, a bit early to be heaping praise on the new signing even if he didn't do much wrong.

I do hope that Young gets a start on Saturday-we really do need some pace out wide and you don't take a player from a top Premier club deemed good enough to make an appearance only the other week in the Champions League and not play him.

[Snowflake Royal]

We didn’t have a shape. Lane and Doyle just wandered around seemingly at random.

I thought it might be me being thick for not being able to figure out what our formation was (still possible). But it's been pretty difficult under LR. At first I thought it meant we were playing a more advanced and fluid game, but now I'm wondering if it's causing too much confusion. I said a while back; I'm a big advocate of fluid football, but I think it's something you grow into from an initial plan of clearly defined roles.

Midfield has and remains our biggest puzzle. Savage and Wing are fine, but our attacking mids seem to draw their positions from a oxf*rd raffle every game.

Hound thinks it was a 3-4-2-1... but Nyambe barely crossed the halfway line first half whilst Roberts barely set a foot in our half.

Doyle and Lane drifted from left wing to AM to right wing, often both in the same place at the same time and leaving oxf*rd enormous holes in their wake. Hell, they both came into wingback or DM positions at times.

It was a oxf*rd shambles. Then the one time Dorsett got forward, start of second half, as LB/LCB he scored, because Wigan were totally unaware he was there, because he hadn't previously crossed the halfway line.